Ebay / Paypal horror story. Please read and support a fellow athlete

All,

I’m in the midst of getting stolen from and Ebay / Paypal is assisting in the process.

I have always had excellent luck with Ebay. I’ve sold 1 bike and dozens of other items with great success until now. I have a perfect seller rating nearing 100 and have sold items thru Ebay since 2002.

I’m asking that you read my story and share in my boycott Ebay and Paypal. I’m also asking that you pass my story on so that others can learn from this horror story.

The timeline is an important part of the story.

On May 11th, I placed my 2008 Specialized Epic Marathon up for auction on Ebay. I listed the item as used and supplied the maximum number of images supported by Ebay. I also uploaded another 23 high resolution images to Flickr. I even purchased a pro membership to Flickr to ensure that I provided the utmost in quality images to any potential buyers.

You can see it here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/23693984@N03/sets/72157618736735135/

I worked hard on my posting on Ebay and had a bit of fun learning .html to put some high quality images on the page.

On May 31 2009 my item sold for ~$2,400.

On June 1 I shipped the item via FedEx.

On June 5th, the item arrived.

On June 6th the buyer notified me that the bike arrived and that the box handle was ripped. But that he didn’t think anything was wrong. He acknowledged that he didn’t open the box, but instead took the box directly to the bike shop for reassembly.

On June 11th, the buyer notified me that the bike has some problems, specifically, the chain is rusty, there are some bent gears on the cassette and that the cables need to be replaced. Finally, there is a dent in the seat stay. The bike is still at the bike shop. He asks me what I want to do.

On the same day, I speak to the buyer and confirm via email that he should ask the bike shop to itemize the repairs and send me a quote. I tell him that the seat stay issue is not the condition I sent the bike in, but all of the other issues were consistent with a used mountain bike. I also let the buyer know that I will be contacting FedEX regarding a claim, because the seat stay damage must have happened during shipment.

The buyer then demands a partial $600 refund on the spot. No repair estimate. A refund or nothing. I ask that he get the estimate.

Immediately the buyer puts a claim in with Ebay that the item is significantly different than advertised.

The buyer also refuses to assist FedEx in their investigation of the shipping damage. I have a document from FedEx that states this. I have provided that to Paypal.

Paypal seizes the funds in my Paypal account and opens a claims dispute. Paypal says that it will take 30 days to investigate the dispute. I submit a very complete set of documents and images of the bike and speak to a Paypal representative that agrees that I have more than complied. It is still June 11th.

On June 30th I get an update from Paypal indicating that they’ve asked the buyer for some additional information.

On July 11th, Paypal notifies me that the buyer is now asking his credit card company for a chargeback. I speak to Paypal and they assure me that they have all the documentation in order to represent my case to the credit card company.

On July 30th, Paypal notifies me that the credit card company has reversed the charges and that they are placing the funds on hold in my account. Please note that the funds have already been on hold since June 11th.

On July 31st, Paypal again acknowledges the receipt of the documentation and agrees that it is thorough.

On August 26th, Paypal alert me to the fact that I’ve lost the dispute and that “the credit card company has decided in favor of the buyer”. They do not release the funds. They also let me know that it is my responsibility to contact the buyer and make arrangements to get the bike back.

As of today, Paypal has confiscated the proceeds of the sale and the buyer has not returned my emails regarding the bike. Paypal has not responded to my emails regarding assistance in getting the bike back.

To summarize, I have neither the bike, nor the money. I’ve lost use of both since June 11th. That is 87 days that this buyer has had the bike and 81 days that Paypal has had the money.

dude get a lawyer…some shadey shit going on with the buyer…he’s probably a pro ebay scammer…get a lawyer…thats what id do…

That sucks. Did you ever speak to the bike shop directly about the way the bike arrived?

All I can say is “welcome to credit card disputes”. As a business owner we get 1-2 each year. People stay at our Inn for a few days, then return home, dispute the charge for the room based on the fact that they “didn’t like the Inn” or some other “opinion” of our staff or property. We loose most of these cases. The cc companies don’t wish to make their customers mad so we loose all our money from this guest. What goes around comes around is the way we have to think about these cases when we loose.

Sorry for your propblem, but it sounds as though you’ve lost your $600 bike. Karma will get him back!!!

411.com

You got a car? Get a nice little cooler, fill it with some beverages, maybe a sandwich or two? Sounds like your going on a little ROAD TRIP! Follow him when he goes for a ride, and reclaim what is yours.

have you tried calling paypal/ebay? I imagine the buyer doesn’t have the money–although that probably makes no difference to you. i think the buyer has to send proof of mailing (i.e. he shipped the bike back to you) to get his money back. If he doesn’t, I would think you get your money back. This is partly speculation, but also based on the experience of getting a refund from an ebay purchase. i had to give them my USPS confirmation number. good luck.

Sorry to hear about your problems.

It seems like the buyer has done this before. Right when you try to get a quote from a third party being the bike shop he is reluctant and starts demanding things as well as withholding info.

I would get a lawyer. When was the last time you had contact with the buyer? And what did you discuss?

Unfortunately, that is why I have funded all recent ebay purchases with my cc. It holds power. It sucks you were on the loosing end of this deal. I would go through ebay/paypal to get your bike back - if not you’ll have to play hard ball and hire an attorney. This definately has me leaning towards keeping all purchases/sales to <$250. Thanks for posting.

Edited to add - I think ebay lists the buyers phone number. Look for in under “Sold items”/“View order details”. Buy one of those disposable phones and make this guy hate you!

I am sorry to hear about your situation.

I worked at US Bank in their credit card processing division about 7 years ago. At that time, the percentage of chargebacks that went in favor of the buyer/card holder was in the high 90% range. It comes down to this…the banks want to keep their customers. The business has no power at all. Are they going to threaten to not take Visa/Mastercard anymore?..obviously not.

However, with all that being said, the buyer/card holder is required to show proof that they returned the item to you with a tracking number and signature. If you have not gotten that, you need to have Paypal contact the credit card processing company.

Getting a lawyer like someone else mentioned is an absolute waste of time and will cost you more than the $2400 you lost…not to mention the odds of getting your bike or money back even with a lawyer are about 0%.

Your last resort should be to file a claim with your home owners insurance for theft. You will need to file a claim for mail fraud as well. https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/

  1. Would you please leave this guys eBay ID so we can all block him?
  2. What city did you ship it to so perhaps one of us can be on the lookout for him? If he is riding it and I can get a pic that could go a long way in helping you get a resolution.

I don’t even want this guy to be able to bid on anything should I use eBay again, but most likely won’t as I’m a local CASH only CraigsList fan.

Sorry…horrible story.

You will need to file a claim for mail fraud as well. https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/

Good idea. You have his address right? Look into filing a local police report. Make this person “want” to get rid of you (ie - mail back your bike)

Keep us posted! Who’s up for a road trip (4x4 style)!

Where does this guy live? I hate scammers - if he’s anywhere near me I’ll go knock on his door. I’m in New Bern, NC. I sell stuff on EBay, too, and want to eradicate scum.

That SUCKS!!!

What was the reason that PayPal gave you for losing the dispute?

Something seems fishy with PayPal?

Try to find a senior management type person that you can talk with on the phone rather than dealing with an “operator” that get’s paid $5.50/hr to not care. Try looking up their corporate information via website or other public sources and send a letter with all facts and evidence directly to the CEO/President requesting help. If you can also list the names of the PayPal employees whom you have dealt with.

Where did the funds go? If a dispute arises over funds and the Buyer received the “item” who decides what happens to the funds in such a situation? From a legal standpoint, shouldn’t it be a neutral 3rd Party and not PayPal?

Can you file a claim via EBay and/or PayPal against the Seller? Perhaps you can file a claim for non-payment or some “other” reason in order to open a case as the “Seller” against the “Buyer” for fraudulent activity???

Good Luck…

Here you go…copy all of these guys on a letter outlining your story. I’m sure one or all of them won’t like receiving such a horror story and you should be able to get someone to help, especially the Legal Dept. Do you have any lawyer friends that could send a letter on your behalf?:

Executive Team

Scott Thompson
President

Dickson Chu
Vice President of Global Product and Experience

Ryan D. Downs
Senior Vice President, Worldwide Operations

Scott Guilfoyle
Senior Vice President, Platform Services

Mary M. Hentges
Chief Financial Officer

Barry Herstein
General Manager of North America and Chief Marketing Officer

Philipp Justus
Senior Vice President, Global Markets

John D. Muller
Vice President of Legal, General Counsel

Jack Stephenson
Senior Vice President of Strategy and New Ventures

Tough to read - not sure what recourse you have except to file some sort of lawsuit against the buyer. While we’re talking about PayPal, let me just throw out one piece of advice for those sellers using PayPal for items over $300 - make SURE you require signature confirmation upon delivery. Without a signature, the buyer can file a chargeback for an automatic win. I had a bit of a scare when a buyer claimed not to receive an item when the delivery confirmation said it was delivered. Turned out to be USPS error and all was well, but I got really worried when I read that if the item is over $300, you as a seller must require a signature to be fully “seller protected.” Also, someone mentioned mail fraud - I think since the OP used FedEx the USPS would have no interest…I could be wrong though…?

ouch, that sucks man. I had an issue with paypal and a guy here on ST, sold him some rotor rings, for one reason or another they got there later than they should have (not my fault, I shipped em out on time). without trying to contact me or anything, this fucker files a dispute, paypal takes my $$$, I provide paypal with all the info, well a few days later, I get the money…MINUS THE PAYPAL SERVICE CHARGE…not as bad as your problem, but its still bs and its fucked up that one person can so blatently screw over another person.

Had a different issue with PayPal back in the '03/'04 timeframe. Somehow they double charged my account for an item I purchased. Making a very long story short (it drug out over 6 months of e-mails, correspondence, getting my bank involved, etc), the position of PayPal was that since it is a “user initiated system” I must have paid twice, and it was up to me to get my money back from the seller. They said this even when their own system showed the 2 transactions took place at exactly the same time, down to the second. Not surprisingly that fucker of a seller didn’t return one e-mail after he/she received the funds. Eventually my bank found in my favor and credited my account, but I’m done with PayPal/eBay. I’ll use it if I have to, but I keep nothing in my account and only pay with my bank’s CC- they have a great dispute policy.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, but I wouldn’t expect much out of PayPal/eBay.

Where does this guy live? I hate scammers - if he’s anywhere near me I’ll go knock on his door. I’m in New Bern, NC. I sell stuff on EBay, too, and want to eradicate scum.

I hate PayPal too. I’m in Cincy - I’m in as well :wink:

My Ebay/Paypal horror story was a bit more simple: Bought a bike, paid $900 for it within minutes of the end of the auction, seller never sent the bike. Apparently he had been scammed by someone who paid with a CC, then disputed the sale. Ebay locked his account, he claimed he never saw the $900 I paid him. Ebay dispute came back in my favor, but that only got me $175 back.

I haven’t been even the slightest bit tempted to buy from Ebay since. There is just too much risk for it to be worth me time.

had a similar deal with amazon and a textbook i sold. They gave the person the money back and didn’t require them to return the item.

But yours is much worse. Definitely get a lawyer, and as others said, please post his ebay ID or name and address so we can either block him or go get your bike back for you. I’m really sorry to hear this happened to you.