I was at Eagleman yesterday and have a few thoughts.
A previous post cutely argued that the difference between a triathlete and someone who just does multisport training is the transitions. Hmm, well I was right at the bike start yesterday and if we as triathletes are defined by our ability to transition then we should be embarassed. The mere act of getting onto the bikes seemed to present a big problem for many triathletes.
Guys with the shoes already on the bike trying to get their feet into their shoes before actually getting the bike going
Numerous behind the seat water bottles flying off as the legs were swung across the saddles.
Guys virtually parking their bikes in the middle of the start area causing a number of spills.
Guys dropping the bikes by the road side and running back into T1 for something they’d forgotton.
Yet in all this I never heard a cross word exhanged between any of the athletes. However too rare was the sight of a guy/gal running out with his/her bike, shoes clipped in and smoothly mounting the bike, speeding up then clipping in.
The awards ceremony, well really the roll-down organisation was diabolical.
The number of slots was not really announced (Kona or Cheatwater)
The winners were just told to get in line and claim the slots, thus beyond the guaranteed places, those waiting for a roll down had no idea whether to wait or not.
There were only 2 people working the slot registration desk, thus a very long wait for some tired athletes.
It took over 2 1/2 hours before the mess was cleaned up and the final slot was allocated.
In all the confusion I’m pretty sure that some contenders had left and missed slots that they would not have expected. The 2nd Kona slot M30-34 was made available 2 1/2 hours after the sart of the ceremony and there was only the 10th, 11th and 12th placed guys left waiting. The 10th didn’t want it, the 11th was only there to pick up his clearwater slot and had no idea that a kona slot was still available. He took the Kona slot as well. My mate was the 12th …17 seconds after 11th place. But I’m sure that there are some guys out there who finished higher who are going to be peeved!
What is a bit silly is that the same race organisers did the roll down in the correct way the previous year. What did they manage to unlearn in the last 12 months?
Not sure what Natascha saw and was a bit surprised by her speech. Can’t pass comment on that because I didn’t see what she might have seen but I’ll applaud the anti drafting sentiment in from a general standpoint. Cheatwater last year was an absolute disgrace and I do not hold with any argument that athletes can’t avoid drafting.
Natascha is simply awesome as an athlete and as a person. (OK we all knew that anyway)
As much as I am in awe of Natascha, I’m confused about this World Best time of her’s and why it seems to be better than the 4:07:29 posted by Yvonne van Vlerken at Antwerp last year. Can anyone clear up my confusion there?
As much as I am in awe of Natascha, I’m confused about this World Best time of her’s and why it seems to be better than the 4:07:29 posted by Yvonne van Vlerken at Antwerp last year. Can anyone clear up my confusion there?
There is a claim that Antwerp was short, hence no record.
You just described the qualifying/rolldown process of every 70.3 I’ve witnessed, and from a lot of RR’s here, at a lot I haven’t witnessed. It just appears that they just don’t care who gets the slot, same check goes to them. They just don’t realise, or care, how important it is to some people, and things like the Brazil pro winners not getting their slots can happen. IF it rolls down to 30th, too bad for the athletes in front, but not too bad for them. I hope people wake up and see that it is just the beginning of a long nightmare. SO you do this disaster of a race( two this weekend alone, baja and Eagleman), and you get to qualify for another one in Clearwater…No wonder the spots are rolling down so far, some people are getting wise to the scam, but poor 30th place in the AG thinks they really won something, and they plop down their 300 bucks for the world drafting championships. I realloy feel sorry for the newcomers to the sport, they just don’t know what to avoid yet, but you people that have been around the block, have no excuses anymore…
By the looks of the swim there, Eagleman was short as well or they had one hell of a favorable current. And I don’t think the bike at Eagleman is accurate. I’ve never come within 9 mins of my half time that I got at Eagleman in 1999, I don’t consider it my half iron PR. It’s meaningless to have a half ironman world record or any distance records, unless they come up with some sort of certification.
Monty, with all due respect to you and your status in this sport, not everyone has the same point of view on these races. Eagleman was certainly not a “disaster of a race” to me, and I did Clearwater last year and had a blast, and did NOT draft (I’m not nearly fast enough to do it even if I wanted to). I did both races for the personal challenge and the experience and enjoyed both thoroughly.
I can see how an elite-level racer would be disappointed with certain aspects, but for the average Joe MOP, both races were just fine.
Hey, I take no offense, I’m just reading all the negative RR’s here. Glad you had a good time there, many others did not. At least as far as the races were concerned. You are right, some people do not care one bit if 90% of the field drafts, or if the run is nullifyied because of incompetence. But I do, and from what I read and hear, many others do too. I guess a lot of us expect when we plop down our money, we get what is promised and expected. And when it doesn’t happen, then we get disturbed. I myself am moving on from those races, so I will not have any more issues with them. You and I have different goals in the race, mine need a level playing field for my enjoyment. I fear that you will be enjoying many more of these races than I will be, but good on ya…
I understand the point of view of an elite racer and would also be pissed if I were in that position, but IMO, Eagleman was a great race and all the distances seemed correct to me. We did have a tail current on the swim which accounted for the fast swim times, and according to my computer and run splits, the bike and run were spot on. I didn’t see much if any drafting, but then again, I was well behind the leaders. It is a bummer though that I seem to read about drafting in EVERY IM-branded race I’ve done (that’s 6 of them to date). They seemed to have reached a point where there are just too many people in their races to avoid it. Bummer!
Now Baja, that’s another matter. Reading those reports, I wouldn’t go near that race even though I live in San Clemente. My expectations in a race are like most, an accurate, safe course, organized event management, and hopefully a good meal and maybe even massage after the race and in my experiences, NAS and WTC has provided that for the races I’ve done. I’ve also done two 1/2’s that were NOT IM-branded and both were great as well (Caliman and Superfrog).
The race was great, everyone enjoyed it and my buddy said that he did not see any drafting whatsoever. However as has been pointed out, it was a loop course rather than out and back which does reduce drastically what you will see going on outside your immediate race bubble.
The waves were well done by age group (unlike cheatwater where they combined some of the largest age groups (M30 and M35 together!!) with 8 minutes or so between each wave. I suspect that at times there were the front of some packs riding through the waves in front. Example the M50s went in front of the some younger groups so obviously the waves will merge. However no advantage to the guys that are riding through here.
The swim had a tail current but was essentially and out and back (well ‘V’ shaped), so it was obviously against the current on the way out thus no overall advantage.
Apart from the poor roll down organisation it was a great race and an incredibly strong Pro and Age Group field. Badmann, Flicker, Carfrae, Bell, Legh, Cunningham. I mean how strong is that!!! The top 2 men in the M30 group came in in under 4 hours!!! My buddy went from 4h40 last year (11th place in AG) to 4h23 this year (12th place in Age Group). 4h23 would have got him 2nd place last year in M30, but this year it wouldn’t have been enough to win any age group under M55!!! It seems like anyone who is good at 70.3 came to Eagleman this year.
Seems like all they need to do is re learn how to do the roll down and put a few more referees out on the course.
To be fair, I haven’t read any negative reports about Eagleman, other than slot distribution. The race was very well done, by all accounts I’ve read. I’d also disagree that they don’t care who gets the slots…
Having 100 slots at Timberman to give away last year, I’ll tell ya it’s an onerous task. I’m not sure how to make it a quicker process, unfortunately. Doesn’t mean I don’t care about the athletes…I’m also quite sure I can say the same about Vigo at Eagleman. He cares immensely about what he does…
overall i thought the race was fairly well run - the runa nd bike distances seemd accurate - the swim, maybe a bit short - but conditions were favorable and the positive current leg was actuall (IMO) a bit longer thant he swim out into it.
On the roll down however…
I stopped over at the table where roll down would occur about 45 min before the awards were to start. There were three women going through paperwork. I asked a simply question of how many slots there were for the 40-44 AG - the look one woman shot at me was increadible - I almost dropped dead ont he spot. Got a very curt answer. I then asked about the kona slots…
The same woman looked you and gave me the rudest answer that i will not repeat.
to say the least - this is unexcusable - i know volunetters work hard and take some crap - it is a tough job and they deserve lots of thanks and respect - i give as much of that away as possible -
BUT I also paid a lot of $$ to do this race - asking 2 simple questions (ones that actually should have been posted for that matter) is not asking too much from anyone.
If the RD reads this thread - overall you put on a good race, i had a very nice experience and was prepared to highly encourage the poeple from my tri club to make the 8 hr trip to race next year - all this was spoiled by the completely unacceptable behavior of one of (at least what appeared to be) your top volunetter who has a HORRIBLE attitude.
for all you B and M’s (bitchers and moaners)…Put on your own race since you all seem to think your complaints are so easily remidied. obviously, these race directors are idiots and although they have been doing this for years…they still don’t know what they are doing…You organize 2200 athletes and put your money where your mouth is! If seasoned race directors have these problems then obviously they are very hard to fix
Don’t like drafting…don’t draft…thats all you can do, sorry life is not fair
The bike course is 56 miles…I live there. could it be a few feet short…maybe or too long, maybe…its irrelevant everyone is in the same boat.
You missed your slot to kona or hawaii…tough…maybe next time you won’t leave till the whole thing is over
How about enjoy the race for what it is and what you accomplished
I don’t think the first IM in hawaii had a lot of complainers…they just did the race…thats what its all about
Having 100 slots at Timberman to give away last year, I’ll tell ya it’s an onerous task. I’m not sure how to make it a quicker process, unfortunately. Doesn’t mean I don’t care about the athletes…I’m also quite sure I can say the same about Vigo at Eagleman. He cares immensely about what he does…
I’m sure that Vigo cares immensely about the race. That certainly came across. But a 2 1/2 hour award ceremony is crazyand I’m sorry but the solutions are very very obvious.
I understand that for the 70.3 the channenge is greater than the full IM becuase the roll down and results need to be done the same day. also perhaps a little more complicated since there are dual slots available. However here is what you do.
Don’t start the awards ceremony until you have all the data. He started the opening remarks before the results were completed and verified. Thus the embarassing moment of having a winner in the overall AG of a time of 3hours 6 minutes. Actually it was a guy who abandoned during the run. Immediately obvious and avoidable if you don’t put yourself under the pressure of starting the ceremony before the results have been checked. It meant that the 5th place person was really 4th place and thus they didn’t know who the 6th place was because they’d only given the guy the lists down to number 5.
Don’t do the podiums down to number 5. Wastes time and i sunnecessary.
Don’t do the overall age groups, and overall Masters. Very confusing for the guys who are 1-2-3 places different in their AG on one list versus another list depending on whether the overalls have been eliminated or not. KEEP IT SIMPLE
When you announce the top finishers in each category, THAT"S WHERE YOU DO THE ROLL DOWN. ASK THEM IF THEY WANT THE SLOTS THEN AND KEEP GOING DOWN THE LIST UNTIL THEY ALL THE SLOTS ARE USED. LEAVE THE LARGEST AG CATEGORY TILL LAST IN CASE ANY SLOTS GO FROM ONE CATEGORY ARE UNUSED.
Annouce the winners and then have them all walk up on the podium together. Not one by one
DAMMIT its that simple and you will get the whole thing over with in under 1 hour. But the frustrating thing is that they same emcee and organisation did it this way last year!!!
This is not good for the sponsors either. makes us look very amateur.
To be fair, I haven’t read any negative reports about Eagleman, other than slot distribution. The race was very well done, by all accounts I’ve read. I’d also disagree that they don’t care who gets the slots… ]]
I guess you haven’t seen the dozens of posts, on many of the threads about the rampant drafting that was going on there… I know it is hard to pull off these events, like I said, I’ve directed over 60 races myself over the years. By putting well over 2000 athletes on the same bike course, and roughly the same time is a recipe for disaster, and everyone knows it. SO if you know it, and still do it, then I assume that you really don’t care if they do it…What else is one to think?? That magically everyone is going to ride somewhere where there is no room?? THat dinging a few people will make the difference, and everyone will immediatley split up??? JUst blaming the athletes for some moral shortcoming they may have for all the drafting is a copout. You cut the numbers, space the waves, mix them up, get rid of the loops, add some hills, whatever you have to do to handle your large numbers. Otherwise take your licks after every race, and ignore your audience…It will come back to haunt you someday though, it just may take awhile…
…17 seconds after 11th place. But I’m sure that there are some guys out there who finished higher who are going to be peeved!