I’m fully aware that swimming is very technical based and often the swimmers here suggest us mortals go away and work on our technique first rather than just crank the volume. I’m wondering though at what stage fitness is the key.
I’ve done bugger all swimming since March. The only time I get in the pool is Tues lunch for max of 1.5km at work. Today I threw in a few intervals. I did 5x100 LCM coming in on 1:30 and leaving on 2:00. After some recovery laps I did one last 100m and tried to bring home the back half strong by upping the cadence. I came in on about 1:21.
I often here the swimmers talking about coming in on 1:15-1:20 and leaving like 10 seconds later. My question is, if I can do say 1:20 for 1 rep does this indicate that I should be able to pump out multiple 1:20’s with short recoveries purely by increasing my swim fitness? That is, is my technique sufficient to make these times sustainable?
It depends. Is your 1:20 sprint speed or what you’d go for a race pace 500-800-1000?
When I was in top swim shape, my standalone 100 sprint time was a 58, my pace per 100 was in the 1:07-1:12 range for a 500/1000 race pace swim, and my lowest ‘comfortable’ interval for 100s was going on the 1:20 and coming in around 1:11 to the low teens. (Which are pretty average times for female fish)
I'm fully aware that swimming is very technical based and often the swimmers here suggest us mortals go away and work on our technique first rather than just crank the volume. I'm wondering though at what stage fitness is the key.
I’ve done bugger all swimming since March. The only time I get in the pool is Tues lunch for max of 1.5km at work. Today I threw in a few intervals. I did 5x100 LCM coming in on 1:30 and leaving on 2:00. After some recovery laps I did one last 100m and tried to bring home the back half strong by upping the cadence. I came in on about 1:21.
I often here the swimmers talking about coming in on 1:15-1:20 and leaving like 10 seconds later. My question is, if I can do say 1:20 for 1 rep does this indicate that I should be able to pump out multiple 1:20’s with short recoveries purely by increasing my swim fitness? That is, is my technique sufficient to make these times sustainable?
If you do 30 second recoveries (ie, come in at 1:30 on 2:00) you’re doing an aerobic set.
When we do 1:15/1:20 and then leave :10 later it’s a threshold set. Your doing 1:21 for one whole 100 does not mean you could do a bunch of them now (I bet you couldn’t, if you’re only swimming 1.5k a week).
That said, the answer is yes, if you swim more eventually you’ll be able to hold 1:20s on a threshold set.
Do a 30 min TT - how far can you swim in 30 min - figure out your pace per 100 -that’s your threshold pace and then you can do threshold sets bu :05-:10 rest holding that pace.
So you’re question is, if I just swim more and never do another lick of dedicated stroke work can I get to where I can hold 1:20s on ten seconds rest.
The answer to that question is an unequivocal yes, it can absolutely be done. I am assuming your swim abilities are relatively unexplored.
The follow up question:
Will you actually do what it takes to do this?
Given that you don’t seem to like swimming and judging by your statement that you swim 1,500 more or less straight and steady, don’t have a good sense of how to structure swim workouts; almost certainly not.
Next follow up:
Ok Mr. Smart guy how do I structure workouts correctly to make it happen?
Go to any number of free or low cost sources of swim training plans and workouts and do those workouts. A local or internet coach might be a good source, the swim workouts in a binder, emett hines fitness swimming also can work for you.
If you do 30 second recoveries (ie, come in at 1:30 on 2:00) you’re doing an aerobic set.
When we do 1:15/1:20 and then leave :10 later it’s a threshold set. Your doing 1:21 for one whole 100 does not mean you could do a bunch of them now (I bet you couldn’t, if you’re only swimming 1.5k a week).
10 seconds rest is threshold? I gotta start mixing it up.
It depends. Is your 1:20 sprint speed or what you’d go for a race pace 500-800-1000?
When I was in top swim shape, my standalone 100 sprint time was a 58, my pace per 100 was in the 1:07-1:12 range for a 500/1000 race pace swim, and my lowest ‘comfortable’ interval for 100s was going on the 1:20 and coming in around 1:11 to the low teens. (Which are pretty average times for female fish)
58 is decent for 100 free…(metres)…not sure if any itu gals could go that fast.
Alas, yards time. LCM, it works out to about a 1:06. I was usually more of a middle distance/backstroke type who got thrown on relays to see if it would get us a few extra points at meets.
If you do 30 second recoveries (ie, come in at 1:30 on 2:00) you’re doing an aerobic set.
When we do 1:15/1:20 and then leave :10 later it’s a threshold set. Your doing 1:21 for one whole 100 does not mean you could do a bunch of them now (I bet you couldn’t, if you’re only swimming 1.5k a week).
This isn’t quite right. Whether a set is aerobic or threshold depends on what percentage the swimmer is exerting him/herself, not how much rest he or she is getting between repeats.
That said, the answer is yes, if you swim more eventually you’ll be able to hold 1:20s on a threshold set.
This is right.
Do a 30 min TT - how far can you swim in 30 min - figure out your pace per 100 -that’s your threshold pace and then you can do threshold sets bu :05-:10 rest holding that pace. [you can set other intervals from that pace but I’m not writing them all out for you
I would significantly increase your yardage…err… meterage before using a time trial this long to set a pace, and even then I’d use a shorter distance(or time).
In my day, I probably would have held about 1:14(yards, mid-season) for a 30 minute swim. If I had ever come in at 1:14 on a set of 100’s on the 1:20, I would have gotten a sandalled kick in the ass. We typically used our mile pace.
It’s kind of ‘down time’ for me at the moment whilst I recharge the batteries. I’ve done four IMs with (wetsuit) swim times of 58:30, 1:01, 1:00 and more recently 1:07 (had some issues that day). When in training I might swim between 6500 and 12000 meters. It is true though that I don’t like swimming, mainly because I suck at it compared to the other disciplines.
True also that I don’t really know how to structure sets but I have a tonne of old coaching workouts that I reuse when in training. I might also attend a squad.
Obviously one can’t hold a 1 rep effort (which was fairly close to max) for multiple efforts to the second. I suppose I was curious as to whether my current technique was limiting me from eventually holding much better intervals. Even when in ‘form’ I think the best I was managing was 20x100’s at about 1:35 leaving on 2:00 (it seemed like an easy number to leave on and track my repeats … and yeah gave me more breath!). Though I wouldn’t say I’ve ever really done a truly dedicated block of swim training.
in “form” 100’s on 1:35 definitely suggests your technique requires work.
I would recommend your own advice of
“I might also attend a squad.”
and do so regularly, see how you are after 3-4 months of consistent min. 5x a week workouts.
You will be in shape enough to be able to play around with your technique, under direction, to make a difference.
and still those sprinters do some pretty decent training volume compared to most triathletes…
It is still weird for me why triathletes think that 3 hrs a week with lots of drills and a few sprints is all that is needed for a fast oly distance swim, while those elite 100-400 metre swimmers need to swim 30 hrs a week for a 1-3 min race.
I did 5x100 LCM coming in on 1:30 and leaving on 2:00. After some recovery laps I did one last 100m and tried to bring home the back half strong by upping the cadence. I came in on about 1:21
I don’t think these responders are reading that your times are LCM. Don’t know your age/swim history (other than a couple pretty decent 2.4mi swim times), but IMHO, holding 100’s LCM on 1:30 on 1500m/wk, even with 30sec rest, implies either pretty decent technique, or just damn strong. Thats about where I’d guess I’d be if doing the same yardage and I can hold 1:25 for 20x100LCM leaving on :10 rest when in good swim shape. Usually I can get 1st in AG and top ~10 OA for swim split in local sprints, so even though these mediocre times for most swimmers, is good enough for triathlons.
Alot of points made so far. You can also use heart Rate as a guide. If you are doing other sports and are tuned in to sustainable paces, what are your heart rates for a similar event. It is easy with a pace clock to track your heart rate and use this as a guide and work toward improving your swim speed and maintaining a heart rate at a sustainable rate.
Technique is important, but time in the water swimming is vital. I believe swimming with a team is very helpful and provides you with technique help, specific drills to help build strength, endurance and it is fun.
A word of caution on use of equipment. Pull bouys, paddles, fins etc have a place, in your swim practice. But unless your next Triathlon allows you to use this equipment, you gotta be able to swim. Swimming uses many muscles in your body all at the same time and this requires oxygen. You body through training gets conditioned to supply the needed oxygen to swim. If you always rely on pull bouys, fins and paddles, you are not conditioning your body to swim and when you do, you will quickly get winded, out of breath and have to slow down.
If you do 30 second recoveries (ie, come in at 1:30 on 2:00) you’re doing an aerobic set.
When we do 1:15/1:20 and then leave :10 later it’s a threshold set.
I know you’re keeping it simple but I don’t think the rest is the best way to determine the type of set. If I do 100s on say 1:40 and do them in 1:30, it’s an aerobic endurance set. If They are on 1:30 and I do them in 1:20, it’s a threshold set. Both are 10 sec rest but they are very different sets.
