Hi all, I used 808 for many years, it is time to change and try the tubeless wheels.
I see DT-Swiss ARC1100 62mm and Enve 7.8 are very work well. I want to see everyone suggestion.
Additional questions. What difference DT-Swiss ARC1100 Series and Swiss side Series?
What difference DT-Swiss ARC1100 Series and Swiss side Series?
None - The ARC1100 is exactly the same as the Hadron Ultimate.
I have the Ultimate 800 and 625s, and they’re both really, really good and superbly stable. I felt the 800 was more stable than an 808 firecrest on the same tyre (GP4000) that I also had at the time although this is obviously splitting hairs! The only negative I could give it, is that the Ultimate series is very slightly less stiff than equivalent firecrest. But again, I’m talking a super minimal difference here.
For best value, get the ARC1400. The only difference to the 1100 is the spokes are 0.3mm thicker and the 240 hubs are the slightly lower engagement version (although this can easily be upgraded) so basically negligible difference for a large price difference. The rims/hubs are otherwise identical.
The Swissside Hadron Classic series is the same as the ARC 1400 except they have the 350 hubs instead.
I’ve never ridden the Enve’s so can’t comment.
What difference DT-Swiss ARC1100 Series and Swiss side Series?
None - The ARC1100 is exactly the same as the Hadron Ultimate.
I have the Ultimate 800 and 625s, and they’re both really, really good and superbly stable. I felt the 800 was more stable than an 808 firecrest on the same tyre (GP4000) that I also had at the time although this is obviously splitting hairs! The only negative I could give it, is that the Ultimate series is very slightly less stiff than equivalent firecrest. But again, I’m talking a super minimal difference here.
For best value, get the ARC1400. The only difference to the 1100 is the spokes are 0.3mm thicker and the 240 hubs are the slightly lower engagement version (although this can easily be upgraded) so basically negligible difference for a large price difference. The rims/hubs are otherwise identical.
The Swissside Hadron Classic series is the same as the ARC 1400 except they have the 350 hubs instead.
I’ve never ridden the Enve’s so can’t comment.
more engagement likely equals more drag, so no concern (for me) on that front.
i do not like that the arc 1450’s inner width is still pretty narrow. i run 700x28 vittorias tubeless on my arc 1450s and they look like conti 700x23s.
The ARC 1100 series also gets you ceramic bearings vs the 1400 series. I know Enve used to use DT Swiss hubs but now produces their own. But I’ve never ridden Enve either so can’t comment there.
i do not like that the arc 1450’s inner width is still pretty narrow.
Good point - Swissside/DT Swiss have openly shown their wheels are optimised for 23c tyres. If you want to ride wider than 25c, other brands are probably better but I can’t comment as I prefer to run a 23/25 combo still.
Out of interest, I’ve yet to see a satisfactory explanation of what is different between the 1450 and 1400… do you know? As far as I can tell, the 1400 is the publicly available version, the 1450 is what is supplied to OEMs. Are the two wheels any different?
And also thanks above^^ I forgot about the bearings.
Out of interest, I’ve yet to see a satisfactory explanation of what is different between the 1450 and 1400… do you know? As far as I can tell, the 1400 is the publicly available version, the 1450 is what is supplied to OEMs. Are the two wheels any different?
I had read that the difference is 350 hubs instead of 240.
Out of interest, I’ve yet to see a satisfactory explanation of what is different between the 1450 and 1400… do you know? As far as I can tell, the 1400 is the publicly available version, the 1450 is what is supplied to OEMs. Are the two wheels any different?
I had read that the difference is 350 hubs instead of 240.
Yes I’ve seen that also - But whilst that would make sense (i.e. the 1450 is just a Swissside Hadron Classic) I’ve also read that they are still 240s… I’m hoping at some point someone will post an actual close up pic on social media to work it out for definte!
I have the same question here…
ordered a px with DT swiss ARC 1100 spec, but offered for Enve 7.8 with additional $1.000.
Please help to enlight the plus n minus between the two since i dont have experience with both wheels.
Good point - Swissside/DT Swiss have openly shown their wheels are optimised for 23c tyres. If you want to ride wider than 25c, other brands are probably better but I can’t comment as I prefer to run a 23/25 combo still.
Well, even the Roval CLX64s are optimized for 23-24mms. I had a pair of 26mm S-Works Turbo on them (really 25mm) and the tire was wider than the rim, which is supposedly an aero no-no. The 24mm Turbo Cottons spread out to a hair under 27mm on the CLX64s, which seems to be just right.
That’s also true on HEDs - I have an old pair of Jets, and my wife just got a new pair of Jets, and in both cases, 25mm tires spread out wider than the rim whereas 23mms seem to fit better (obviously, it spreads out to be a fair bit wider than 23mm).
I have the same question here…
ordered a px with DT swiss ARC 1100 spec, but offered for Enve 7.8 with additional $1.000.
Please help to enlight the plus n minus between the two since i dont have experience with both wheels.
Assuming both companies have competent designers, i the difference between the wheels is within the error margins of various testing protocols, tire choices, etc. I personally wouldnt spend $1000 extra for Enves over DT Swiss Arcs - and i say this as someone who has really wanted the Enves ever since they first came out with SES wheels.
Well, even the Roval CLX64s are optimized for 23-24mms. I had a pair of 26mm S-Works Turbo on them (really 25mm) and the tire was wider than the rim, which is supposedly an aero no-no. The 24mm Turbo Cottons spread out to a hair under 27mm on the CLX64s, which seems to be just right.
That’s also true on HEDs - I have an old pair of Jets, and my wife just got a new pair of Jets, and in both cases, 25mm tires spread out wider than the rim whereas 23mms seem to fit better (obviously, it spreads out to be a fair bit wider than 23mm).
The HEDs are unique because of their super wide inner width due to aluminum construction.
But between the two wheels in question, one is a wheel specifically designed around 23c tires with a 23mm wide brake track and the other is specifically designed around 25c with a 27.5mm brake track.
But between the two wheels in question, one is a wheel specifically designed around 23c tires with a 23mm wide brake track and the other is specifically designed around 25c with a 27.5mm brake track.
Right, i get that.
The reason I bring this up: the Rovals are 28mm OD, and 25/26c tires spread too wide on that. So I suspect this may also be the case on a 27.5mm OD rim like the Enves.
So i am curious as to how Enve defines optimization - is it aero only? Or a mix or aero + RR?
Of course, maybe the way the Enve rims are designed, it could be that a 25c tire ends up being perfectly sized, rendering my question moot.
But between the two wheels in question, one is a wheel specifically designed around 23c tires with a 23mm wide brake track and the other is specifically designed around 25c with a 27.5mm brake track.
Right, i get that.
The reason I bring this up: the Rovals are 28mm OD, and 25/26c tires spread too wide on that. So I suspect this may also be the case on a 27.5mm OD rim like the Enves.
So i am curious as to how Enve defines optimization - is it aero only? Or a mix or aero + RR?
Of course, maybe the way the Enve rims are designed, it could be that a 25c tire ends up being perfectly sized, rendering my question moot.
Don’t focus too much on what it looks like re tyre width as there are more interactions further down the rim. So you could have a tyre that’s much wider than the brake track but it’s mitigated because of a bulge of the rim sidewall lower down.
In our testing ENVE 7.8s are faster aerodynamically with 25mm tyres rather than 23mm tyres, so if you want to get the ENVEs then go for 25s.
What was the actual measured width of the tire that was fastest?
Don’t focus too much on what it looks like re tyre width as there are more interactions further down the rim. So you could have a tyre that’s much wider than the brake track but it’s mitigated because of a bulge of the rim sidewall lower down.
In our testing ENVE 7.8s are faster aerodynamically with 25mm tyres rather than 23mm tyres, so if you want to get the ENVEs then go for 25s.
Ah gotcha, thanks for that.