Hey everybody. I’ve been using BOTH Roctane drink mix and GU gels and perhaps not surprisingly, have been getting stomach upset and sloshing during the run phase. I figure that the three bottles of energy drink while biking 90k and the three gels are not absorbed. Lately, I’ve been reading about osmolality and also thought about hypotonic drinks but these are not easily identifiable on the web.
I’ve got two weeks to Eagleman and need to dial in my nutrition quickly, so I figure I have two more brick sessions before the race. Would you all recommend water plus gels or just the energy drink? Thanks!
The reason for upset stomach is most likely too many calories that you can’t absorb. So it’s not necessarily sports drink v. gels, more about your hourly energy intake. Work out how many calories per hour you’re taking in and dial it back.
The calories from drinks obviously depends on how much you’re drinking.
So let’s say you drink one litre per hour of sports drink - that’s typically around 220-240 calories.
Depending on your size and tolerance for energy absorption, you can maybe tolerate 400-500 calories per hour.
So based on how much you’re drinking, top up your calories intake with gels.
This is very individual - you’re going to need to work out what works for you personally.
Hey everybody. I’ve been using BOTH Roctane drink mix and GU gels and perhaps not surprisingly, have been getting stomach upset and sloshing during the run phase. I figure that the three bottles of energy drink while biking 90k and the three gels are not absorbed. Lately, I’ve been reading about osmolality and also thought about hypotonic drinks but these are not easily identifiable on the web.
I’ve got two weeks to Eagleman and need to dial in my nutrition quickly, so I figure I have two more brick sessions before the race. Would you all recommend water plus gels or just the energy drink? Thanks! Great questions.
You can do either approach. You just need to manage the following:
Hourly carb consumption rate.Hourly fluid consumption rateHourly sodium consumption rateCarb concentrationSodium concentrationA distant tertiary consideration: overall beverage osmolarity which will be managed well by making wise choices in the aforementioned list, in 99.9% of cases.
I’d guess that your previous strategy has you doing the following, ordered the same as above:
Maybe getting optimal carb consumption rate, but maybe having periods where in a short time, you’re exceeding the rate which your gut can handle. 120g/hr is a good upper limit unless you’ve tried more previously. If you slam 60g carbs in 15-20min, then ouch. Spread evenly.Not enough. Almost certainly not enough unless your energy & gel choices are exceptionally high-sodium options.Probably periodically too high, if you’re not intaking plain water chasing gels.Probably fine.Probably not an issue.
Most of all, if under consuming fluids, you’re getting progressively more dehydrated, which reduces your gut tolerance for all those 6 considerations above, across the board, as dehydration progresses.
I would first check out the total number of carbs (sugar likely) in your gel and drink. Off hand three drinks and three gels seems like it could be a lot, maybe 200g or so? If the bike is taking you around 2.5 hours that’s 80g of carb an hour which is near the upper limit for a trained gut. To reach > 60 an hour you typically need a mix of fructose and glucose, so I would check your mix ingredients and see what the ratio is. Usually 2:1 glucose to fructose is “safeâ€, but everyone’s gut is different!
After you get a handle on those two things, I’d try to start at 60g an hour well spaced and then look to your hydration. Ideally the hydration is slightly separate from nutrition in that you can drink more on days when it’s hotter… if your only hydration is dense drink mix, you can’t get out of a hole. When you’re downing all of this sugar on the bike you need to make sure you’re taking in enough fluids and salts to keep your body hydrated and your gut happy.
Finally the last point is experiment with a few different products and ingredients. For instance I learned the hard way that my gut doesn’t love maltodextrin because it’s usually derived from corn which I’m sensitive to. But pure glucose and fructose are fine. Some are sensitive to added preservatives etc. For a drink mix I’d give a big shout out to Skratch as being extremely well tolerated. For hydration check out Precision Hydration. Gels I like Maurten or something similar
Two weeks is not a lot of time to figure this out and you don’t want to end up with too few calories or hydration. I would drop one or maybe two gels from the schedule, in the last 15-35 miles of the bike. Keep the fluids.
One more note: you’re probably violating the glucose limitations of your gut and not maximizing fructose intake ability.
Optimal is somewhere between 2:1 and 1:1.
You’re consuming Gu Roctane drink + Gu gels.
**Gu roctane drink mix is 3:1 **glucose:fructose.
How can you know?
60 carbs total, and only ~15g fructose, the only sugar listed. The rest is maltodextrin, which is the only other carb listed, and is a great ingredient individually. But without enough fructose, you’ll have gut issues if you’re pushing high fueling rates as I believe you you are.
You need more fructose.
Their **gels **are the same story at roughly **2.5:1 **glucose:fructose.
There are more qualified folks but a big issue for me is overall dehydration. I’ve had to dial back the bike effort to keep my sweat rate down, while consuming a lot of fluids, in order to be able to absorb the calories. If I’m too dehydrated I feel like my gut completely shuts down and cramping happens. A little late to play too much but I found giving up a few minutes on the bike allows me to fuel effectively and not blow up on the run.
Thanks for the advice everyone! I’m going to sit down and try to dial in my hydration and nutrition after Eagleman, but for today, I decided to try just energy drinks with a front loaded gel on bike for today’s brick and found my stomach in much better shape for the run. That being said, I also felt that I could have used a boost in the middle of my run.
Maybe I could switch to just water with the gel during the middle portion of the run when I’m starting to feel somewhat bonked and switch back to energy drink at the next aid station.
Is there a specific brand of energy drink with higher fructose content that anybody would recommend? Coincidentally, I ordered a batch of Skratch powder drink and will try that on my last brick before the race.
Adam, totally agree with you for sacrificing some thunder on the bike. It’s helped with cramping during the run.
Have you tried drinking coke during the run? It’s is practically straight sugar and it is on course so no need to worry about carrying. Do a couple cups of gatorade ever couple aid stations too in order to keep you sodium levels up but mainly just take in the coke.
Yea it was pretty amazing the first time I tried it during a race (was probably at eagleman a few years ago). Easy to test too since you can just go buy a can/bottle local.
It’s usually pretty flat by the time you start drinking it at the aid stations. Plus they fill up a normal aid station water cup with the same amount of coke so it’s not much going down each time.
Yea it was pretty amazing the first time I tried it during a race (was probably at eagleman a few years ago). Easy to test too since you can just go buy a can/bottle local.
It’s usually pretty flat by the time you start drinking it at the aid stations. Plus they fill up a normal aid station water cup with the same amount of coke so it’s not much going down each time.
Do the coke. Just don’t drink a full cup! The aid stations usually only fill the cup hall way. Maybe drink half of that. I switch to coke for the run and grab it at two consecutive stations and then skip a station.
Practice with the fizz. You’ll probably end up with some fizz from some aid stations. A few burps might be a great relief.
Yea it was pretty amazing the first time I tried it during a race (was probably at eagleman a few years ago). Easy to test too since you can just go buy a can/bottle local.
It’s usually pretty flat by the time you start drinking it at the aid stations. Plus they fill up a normal aid station water cup with the same amount of coke so it’s not much going down each time.
I use one Clif Bar coming out of T1. Two more bars tucked in my rear pocket. One at hour one and one at hour two. Two Gatorades on the bike.
I like the solids to go with the Gatorade as it offsets hunger over hours of sustained activity. As well, it helps with absorption. Everyone’s different in terms of their gut. Some people can’t so solids.
Alright - I’m not the original poster, but wanted to ask DrAlexHarrison…
confirm some of my napkin math (I’ve messaged you previously).
confirm a suspicion I should try fructose as a supplement
I use Infinit as nutrition. My mix I use on the bike has 65g carbs, which is comprised of 20g cane sugar and the rest maltodextrin.
Using this discussion, I think that the glucose:fructose ratio I’m working with here is ~55 to 10 (or 5:1)? (Maltodextrin contributes glucose, cane sugar is 50/50 glucose/fructose).
I’ve been experimenting with adding some carbohydrates to the mix as my coach thinks based on performance I need more fuel. I tried simply asking Infinit to give me more calories (340 per serving instead of 270) and that wound up making my stomach and GI tract a giant balloon. Ditto with Skratch superfuel (worse even.) Recently have tried adding table sugar to the bottles, 4 teaspoons to be exact (~16 grams total). My modified mix is now ~81 grams of carbs broken down as follows: 63 glucose to 18 fructose. That hasn’t been causing major distress but I wonder if I could get it better with fructose.
I have about 8 weeks until my Ironman, so have about 6 long rides left to tinker. With my added table sugar my ratio is ~3:1 glucose:fructose and I clearly have some room to adjust. Instead of adding table sugar to my mix I could add pure fructose supplement. Another option is that I can also change my Infinit mix up in terms of ratios (less maltodextrin, more cane sugar), but I have been using it for a pretty long time without major GI distress so I want to take baby steps here (plus I still have nearly two full bags of it that I don’t want to waste).
So - does my math for ratios look about right? And - (this may be a silly question) - confirm that trying fructose instead of table sugar may be a better avenue?
I’d personally just go with slightly more cane sugar in whatever you’re putting in your bottles. Fructose from Bulk Supplements on Amazon is a good option. (no affiliation, though I should be)
So after a couple of more brick sessions, I’ve settled upon gel plus Roctane for the first two hours and then switching to Coke plus Roctane for the remainder of bike. Then, for the run, I’ve been using the Coke/Roctane mix.
Tomorrow is race day so I’ll be putting it to the test. Thanks everyone for the terrific advice!