DQed

Triathlon Forum
1

… for endangerment. No, I’ve never heard of it. I got it at today’s triathlon for doing something I was told to do, after doing something I was not told not to do. With me so far?

Here’s the deal. The logistics of this race involve taking a ferry to an island at 7:15 for a 9am start. No point in warming up before the ferry. At 8:30, on the dock where we are going to jump in for a water start, I suit up (wetsuits mandatory, although the water was rather warm) and hop in for a warmup swim (breaking my goggles in the process; luckily I have a spare with me!). I swim around the stern of the ferry which is docked, and head towards the buoys. About 200yds out, a kayaker points me to a dinghy behind me. They say to get my ass back to the dock, and point me to the front of the ferry. I do so, haul my butt back on the dock, and get scolded. I apologize and point out that there was no instructions not to warm up in the water.

Race starts (the advertised cannon start consisted of the official yelling “go”), I do my first Olympic tri in over 10 years, come in 17th overall, 1st in 45-49. Splits are lousy, but it seemed everyone else’s was, too, so I’m not terribly unhappy. I then cursorily check the penalty list, and there it is. I’ll have to look it up.

The head ref explained that it was getting in the way of the ferry that was the issue (I think, I was pretty stunned at the moment).

On the two hour drive home, I thought about this. My sources of information for this race were 1) USAT rule book, 2) Racer Guide on the web, first-timers meeting on Friday evening (I was there), and the mandatory 6:45am racer meeting (I was there, too). No mention of no warming up on the island. None. The head ref explained that someone told us on the island. Didn’t tell me. On the island, people (almost 400 of us) were spread along a pier and inland over about 200yds. There was no mention of any kind of meeting once on the island, so I can’t understand how everyone was supposed to be informed, for the first time, about something important. There was someone walking around with a megaphone, but her only message was on how important it was to organize the waves to get everyone in at slack tide.

I calmly found the race director in order to tell him that next year he needed to explicitly indicate in the racer guide that nobody was allowed in the water. To his credit, when he heard what happened, he gave me a big jug of Hammer Gel as compensation.

My gut reaction is to give up the sport, but that’ll pass.

My other reaction is that non-sprint triathlons are hard. I’m gonna have to re-think my four year plan of “going long”.

Thanks for listening.

(Edit: In my stunned stupor, I forgot to pick up my bag that they brought back from the island. Gone are my bungee goggle strap and my beater sneakers. Now I have to mow the lawn in my running shoes…)

2

Good sport about it and you got some Hammer Gel to boot. Not bad. The best part of the story is you brought an extra pair of goggles with you-you are one prepared SOB.

3

First, kudo’s the RD for making an effort to at least accept his end of accountability…

Second, good for you for taking your concerns to the RD and accepting his gracious attempt to make things right without putting his head ref in a tough spot.

Third, extra set of goggles, nice…lol

** it seems to me that this was a very complicated swim start… Almost too complicated **

Oreo

4

Ken, sorry to hear you are an endangered species, or something like that…

The reason you thought the non-sprint triathlon was HARD is because you went too darn fast: Slow Down :slight_smile: You’ll get a speeding ticket…winning the 45-49 AG means you were fast. Period.

I’d re-think the 4-year plan to go long, too. I’d suggest you change it to a one year plan. Hey, at our age, you don’t want to wait too long. Sure, we can still buy green bananas…but, it may take a few times before you hit everything just right in an Ironman, so, maybe the sooner you start trying, the more likely you are to impress yourself with a really good time. Plus, I think the longer you go before you try it, the more excuses you’ll have not to do it. Furthermore, on some shorter race, you are likely some day to hit a wall so tall (especially at your speed) that you are scared out of doing “the big one”.

Come on, Ken, jump in the big one next year!

OK, off for my first Olympic race of the year…it’s been a rough taper with a sick child, restless dog, two dump-truck loads of mulch to spread, only about 10 hours cumulative sleep the past few nights. It could be a long day today, but, at least the child is better, the dog is sleeping, the mulch is spread, my wife loves me, and I’m healthy enough to do something as crazy as a triathlon. So, even though I’m relatively sure I won’t have a PR-type performance today, Life is good.

6

wow, that sucks. I should have told you Friday. No, they was never any race info given on the pier, but they always yelled at everybody to stay out of the water. On the other hand, how could they ID you for penalties when you were wearing a wetsuit? That, btw, is a coast guard reg, I believe. First year, it was rainy and below 70 degrees. The women with the megaphone was Linda toretsky, one of the timers. I think she likes to do that, if you go to any races she and her husband time, she’s usually yelling a lot, trying to be helpful. It is a tough race, IMO. AS I said earlier, I skipped it because Neil raised the fee from $70 to $105. He told me by email he had to pay for extra permits, but I still thought it was steep. Still, I think Neil is a good guy and tries to put on a safe, fun race. Glad he tried to make it up to you. Maybe you can make it up with the international distance race he does in July.

7

First of all, congrats on a great race. Everything else is just noise.

You raced well, and you got screwed. I raced mediocre and got screwed (no one’s fault, stubbed a toe on an underwater rock and broke it - the toe, not the rock).

Important part is you raced well.

As to going long, I’ll second the 4 year plan. Keep enough short races to have a fun season, and step up when you’ve done well enough. If you’ve now bested your AG at Int’l distance, it’s time to go Half Iron. Set a time or place (top ten in your AG?) as a marker, and when you hit it, go long.

I’ve found that Half Iron can take it out of your for four weeks or more, and obviously Iron distance would do even more. I’d hate to have my whole season be nothing but two or three Iron distance races. I prefer to race 8-10 events a year.

My 2¢

8

CE, if he was first in his AG in an International distance, top 10 in a Half is a piece of cake! My best finish in shorter distances was maybe fourth before my first-ever half, where I again finished fourth. Before I ever won an AG (which I’ve only done in sprints, not International distance), my worst finish in a half was 8th, and I was sick. I’d say aim a little higher on the ladder than top 10 AG! Like my Grandma always said, if you aim high on the ladder and miss, you still have a lot of rungs left to fall back on.

Hope your toe heals quickly…sounds a little like a dance move.

9

Sounds like we’re on the same page. In the older AGs, there also aren’t as many folks racing. Actually, winning by attrition is my plan. I hope to win my AG at all distances when I’m 103…

My caution has to do with people who don’t understand what’s involved in longer races, and what they take out of you. I’ve yet to actually “race” a half-iron. I finished fifth at CaliMan, but only “raced” the bike. I drafted heavily in the swim to save energy, and then hobbled the run on a bad Achilles. Still, that effort took me off my game for the better part of a month. I think it’s important to have a good “race” at half before going full. Top ten in MY AG (50-54) isn’t all that tough. As you move down the ladder, however, it gets tougher. Personally, I set time goals: 2:30 at Int’l before going half, and 5:00 for a half before I go full. I have no interest in walking to the finish line carrying a glow stick at 11:55…

Too many newcomers don’t respect what it takes to go long. They think that anything less than Ironman® isn’t really a triathlon. Fact is, some folks can go long, but can’t compete at shorter distances. So it’s important to find out what distance works best for each person. I do an iron-distance training day every New Years Eve. 10K swim, 100 mile bike, 10 mile run. But I don’t “race” it; it’s a zone 2 day for base building.

10

  1. Congrats on the 1st place in your AG.

  2. Sorry about the DQ.

  3. I love the events of this sport and the training … but this is flat-out the goofiest & silliest ahem sport I have ever seen (i.e., the rules, the organization, enforcement, the fees, etc).

11

CE wrote: Actually, winning by attrition is my plan. I hope to win my AG at all distances when I’m 103…

Ha! Yeah, we have a fellow around here still going in his 80’s…he’s not always last, either! I agree about the glow-stick thing…doesn’t sound appealing to me, either. I just think Ken is capable of going long as the finale of the season. I certainly wouldn’t do it anywhere else in my season. I’m sure I’ll need lots of recovery time, as endurance sports aren’t my “thing”. Of course, it’s smarter to wait longer, just as you advised, and as he has planned.

12

Sounds like we’re on the same page. In the older AGs, there also aren’t as many folks racing. Actually, winning by attrition is my plan. I hope to win my AG at all distances when I’m 103…

**I did my first (sprint) tri in Ann Arbor last weekend and was happy with the 23 of 53 in the 35-39 AG. I figured I would do better next year even without improving myself when I moved up into the 40-44 AG. Then, I checked the results. While attrition may explain the lower number of finishers, I would have actually placed worse, maybe 25 of 49. Looks like I will have to work fairly hard just not to get worse. **

13

“Looks like I will have to work fairly hard just not to get worse.”

    • I know what you mean. Two years ago at Santa Cruz, Tim Lavelle won my division (50-54) in 2:11. I was delighted to see that he was aging up over the winter, until I looked at the rest of the results and saw that Dean Harper (USAT #1 in my AG this year) was aging up. Last year, Dean did the same course in 2:04.
14

CTL, the good thing is, you probably will get better, if you train consistantly. There are always some really fast older people, but, fewer of them. OTH, there have been some races where I didn’t even place in my AG, but would have won 20-24, 25-29, and 30-34! Go figure! Plus, there are the Master’s Elite guys I’m not even considering. Some of those guys are REALLY fast.

23 of 53 is really good, especially for your first triathlon! You’re likely to improve on that a lot with experience…congratulations!

15

Yaquicarbo, it was not a serious complaint, and I was happy with the result. Besides, my cycling is so poor relative to my swimming and running that improvement should be fairly easy. Even if not, there are far worse ways to spend free time than working out and competing.

16

Sorry to hear about your DQ.

Part of the problem with our sport is that every race is slightly different due to the unique location of each event and each course of swim, bike and run. It’s not like a soccer field that is the same every time you play.

This presents challenges for both RD’s and athletes. ie. Does it state in the USAT or ITU rule book that you are only supposed to swim in front of docked, ferrys for point to point swims starting from islands?!? This is where the pre-race meeting, if there is one, is critical, beacuse often these unique issues are gone over. As back up RD’s and race officials often wash there hands of this with a clear stipulation that it is incumbant on participants to know the rules - period!

I was once DQ’d for running the wrong way in the transition zone! I gained no advantage from this, in fact I had to run extra distance, but the RD instituted the you-should-have-known-the-rules clause and through the book at me.

17

I was once DQ’d for running the wrong way in the transition zone! I gained no advantage from this, in fact I had to run extra distance, but the RD instituted the you-should-have-known-the-rules clause and through the book at me.

I quite seriously would have thrown the rule book into the RD’s face if he did really “Throw” the book “at” you. He would have been lucky if that was all I did. I hope you are not meaning that he really took a book and made it fly in your general direction.

18

I shugged it off and did not make a big deal about it. I asked the obvious questions and left it at that.

I have seen too many people from top stars in the sport to BOP types go ballistic at RD’s over all manner of things, but mostly minor little things that leave me shaking my head wondering why RD’s ever bother even putting on an event.

19

People are being penalized/punished for doing things that offer them no race advantage (not wearing a shirt on the bike, swimming in front of a ferry, running the wrong way in a transition zone, etc). What’s sillier is that all of these cases were committed by folks that had read the rule books, attended the meetings, etc (where their violation was not mentioned/printed).

Can’t some of this stuff slide? Is it really necessary to be anal about “violations” that do not give the athlete any race advantage? Aren’t there more important violations that could be observed?

Somebody mentioned RD’s taking a lot of crap from athletes … it seems like some RD’s go out of their way (somewhat) to create minor situations that don’t need to be created.

20

Part of the challenge is that we have people who participate in triathlon divided into two camps:

  1. The folks that take this stuff very seriously. They care about where they place in their age-group. They care about how fast they go. They are gunning for IMH or other qualifying spots. The want to make it onto a national team or be recognized in their age-group.

  2. I say this with respect, but the second and by far the largest group are the folks that really could not care less about where they place or how fast they go. They just want to get to the finish line and have a good time.

Strict by-the-book rule enforcement is for the first group. For the second group, I think that all that matters is that they are conducting themselves in a safe manner - a warning will usually suffice… Indeed, if you go to any triathlon you will see violations of the most standard and common rules all over the course. The actual number of penalties handed out is quite low. Yes it’s a double standard, but this seems to be the way that things are being done. Example: Pacing and outside assistance is a BIG no-no. If you are racing in the elite divsion at an IM race or for a top spot in your age-group( ie in the top 100 + postitions), if a race offcial sees this happen you are very likley to get a penalty or a DQ. Yet it’s not uncommon for people at the back of the pack, the last finisher in particular ,to get all kinds of outside help and he/she is “paced” right to the finish line of the race with no sanctions often right under the watchful gaze of race officials!