Hi guys,
Over 70.3 and 140.6 does having a really high V02 max matter? The only time I am gasping for air is during really intensive activities like football, while cycling, swimming and running your lungs are not pushed to their limits.
Am I misunderstanding V02 max?
-Cake
Yes it matters. It matters most if your VO2 max is either high or low though. But it is not the complete picture. The biggest VO2 max does not always win. If two guys have a similar VO2 max, the one who can race at a higher percentage of his VO2 max is going to have an advantage. Generally, power or pace at lactate threshold is a better predictor of race performance.
All things being equal, the guy with the highest VO2max should win an endurance race. As you probably guess things are seldom equal. Several physiological factors determine how much of VO2max can be sustained in a race. Someone with high VO2max who sustains only 60% of it might lose to someone with lower VO2max who utilizes 80%. In addition, efficiency of movement can also unlevel the playing field between 2 guys with the same VO2max and %utilization.
If you’re involved in an aerobic activity, then the ability to transport oxygen matters, so I think you are oversimplifying a little bit.
If you have a low VO2 max, that can be a limiter, even though lactate threshold and economy may be better predictors of long course performance. Fortunately training adaptations don’t occur in a vacuum, so even you are looking to maximize your training time, your VO2 max can be developed/ maintained, even while focusing workouts on LT or economy.
There’s a well established trend in exercise physiology studies that running economy is inversely proportional to VO2max.
http://running.competitor.com/2010/05/features/run-unconscious_10054
Very interesting article. No doubt that the “trend” exists, but as he pointed out with elite runners, with similar VO2maxes, the very best make adaptations, improving economy and allowing a runner to spend less energy at a given speed. This is particularly important in marathon, or any long efforts that cause carbohydrate depletion. There is no cause/effect though, so having a high VO2 max doesn’t prevent you (or mean that) you have poor running economy, or visa versa.
One of Jack Daniels three main training focuses is primarily designed to improve economy, by executing short, fast bouts of running, to stress the athlete in a manner to elicit improved economy. I think that many triathletes focus on longer intervals, focusing on VO2 max and LT development, and avoid wo’s that as designed to improve economy, which can be just as important.
There’s a well established trend in exercise physiology studies that running economy is inversely proportional to VO2max.
I will look into the literature and ask some people I know in Europe about this. One thing that is different with a higher VO2 max is that an athlete with a high VO2 max will usually metabolize more fat at any different running speed than someone with a lower VO2 max. This may be affecting the differences in running economy as well as different running strides/mechanics.
Also there is never enough aerobic capacity for an endurance event so the higher the better but as many people have pointed out the ability to utilize this capacity differs dramatically from person to person and this depends on the strength of their anaerobic system.
Yes it matters. It matters most if your VO2 max is either high or low though. But it is not the complete picture. The biggest VO2 max does not always win. If two guys have a similar VO2 max, the one who can race at a higher percentage of his VO2 max is going to have an advantage. Generally, power or pace at lactate threshold is a better predictor of race performance.
What you are describing is vVO2, or velocity at VO2max. VO2 max is an indicator of potential, and not much more. tlimVO2 and vVO2 are better gauges.
John
There’s a well established trend in exercise physiology studies that running economy is inversely proportional to VO2max.
I will look into the literature and ask some people I know in Europe about this. One thing that is different with a higher VO2 max is that an athlete with a high VO2 max will usually metabolize more fat at any different running speed than someone with a lower VO2 max. This may be affecting the differences in running economy as well as different running strides/mechanics.
Also there is never enough aerobic capacity for an endurance event so the higher the better but as many people have pointed out the ability to utilize this capacity differs dramatically from person to person and this depends on the strength of their anaerobic system.
Will people in Europe have better answers on this? Does socialism lead to more informed answers regarding the relationship between VO2max and endurance? If so, won’t Canadians suffice?
Canada isn’t socialist enough to know.
Canada isn’t socialist enough to know.
Any socialism is too much socialism. So, Canadians are too socialist.
Plus, today they’re all giving thanks, so, not available to comment. Maybe in QC they don’t have much to give thanks for? Is that why you’re on? The NHL strike is probably a blessing given the team the Habs had this year, so, that might be something.
I’m French-Aussie…not French Canadian…
One of Jack Daniels three main training focuses is primarily designed to improve economy, by executing short, fast bouts of running, to stress the athlete in a manner to elicit improved economy. I think that many triathletes focus on longer intervals, focusing on VO2 max and LT development, and avoid wo’s that as designed to improve economy, which can be just as important.
Good old Jack Daniels. I’ll have some of that. Yes, the matter of running economy lies in the legs and feet… not in the heart. Many ‘peripheral’ adaptations to consider.
I’m French-Aussie…not French Canadian…
Really? There is such a thing?
OK, never mind about the Habs. Lost reference.
Not totally. I lived in Montreal from 93 to 95. I had to move because no one really spoke French there 
Not totally. I lived in Montreal from 93 to 95. I had to move because no one really spoke French there
OK. This thread is getting a bit sidetracked, so, these questions are more rhetorical than literal.
Were you offended that I thought you were a Quebecois?
Do French-Aussies want to secede? If so, to which country will they become the 51st state?
Since you’re also a person that once lived in Europe, can you answer the importance of VO2max in endurance sports and if there is a trend regarding the inverse relationship between VO2max and economy?
That’s about it. Back to the thread.
Not one bit. I really liked living in Montreal. Fun city. Fun people. The roads suck big time though.
The French-Aussies are taking over the US. I’m starting with my state, Texas. So far, no one has noticed that I’m not
from here since my accent blends in nicely.
I lived in Paris, not in Europe (sorry…one dude here once told me ‘they are is a Paris in France’ with a Texan drawl…and he was serious).
As for the inverse relationship between VO2max and economy, I think it was a trend already 10 years ago. I can’t recall who it was, but there
were a few studies coming from Spain, about economy and VO2max in elite cyclist. I’m sure Pubmed can find stuff in Europe too
Hi guys,
Over 70.3 and 140.6 does having a really high V02 max matter? The only time I am gasping for air is during really intensive activities like football, while cycling, swimming and running your lungs are not pushed to their limits.
Am I misunderstanding V02 max?
-Cake
V02 is only one several variables. People with lower V02 max tend to adapt better running economy to compensate. There are several famous marathoners with unremarkable V02 max measurements.
Rate of Improvement
The average person can expect an increase of 15% to 20% in V02 max by performing aerobic and anaerobic exercise three times per week for 30-60 minutes depending on the type of exercise. A highly trained athlete at the appropriate percent body fat will find that V02 max increases are limited by genetic capabilities and muscle fiber type.
Sources:
Sources
http://www.crosslink.net/~cherylw/V02MAX.htm
http://www.runnersweb.com/running/vo2_js.html
http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/vo2max.htm
Records and Averages
• General Population, Female, Aged 20-29: 35-43 ml/kg/min
• General Population, Male, Aged 20-29: 44-51
• US College Track, Male: 57.4
• College Students, Male: 44.6
• Highest Recorded Female (Cross-Country Skier): 74
• Highest Recorded Male (Cross-Country Skier): 94
Famous athletes
Steve Prefontaine
• Steve Prefontaine,US runner, 84.4
• Frank Shorter, US Olympic Marathon winner, 71.3
• Grete Waitz, Norwegian Marathon/10K runner, 73.5
• Ingrid Kristiansen, ex-Marathon World Record Holder, 71.2
• Derek Clayton, Australian ex-Marathon World Record holder, 69.7
• Rosa Mota, Marathon runner, 67.2
• Jeff Galloway, US Runner, 73.0
• Paula Ivan, Russian Olympic 1500M Record Holder, 71.0
• Jarmila Krotochvilova,Czech Olympian 400M/800M winner, 72.8
• Greg LeMond, professional cyclist, 92.5
• Matt Carpenter, Pikes Peak marathon course record holder, 92
• Miguel Indurain, professional cyclist, 88
Not one bit. I really liked living in Montreal. Fun city. Fun people. The roads suck big time though.
The French-Aussies are taking over the US. I’m starting with my state, Texas. So far, no one has noticed that I’m not
from here since my accent blends in nicely.
I lived in Paris, not in Europe (sorry…one dude here once told me ‘they are is a Paris in France’ with a Texan drawl…and he was serious).
As for the inverse relationship between VO2max and economy, I think it was a trend already 10 years ago. I can’t recall who it was, but there
were a few studies coming from Spain, about economy and VO2max in elite cyclist. I’m sure Pubmed can find stuff in Europe too
Well, as I said, the questions were rhetorical, but interesting that you’re a French-Aussie in Texas. Talk about culture clashes.
Anyway, to get this back on track, so, you’re saying that this trend in the inverse relationship started about 10 years ago? So, before that, there was no inverse relationship? Some guys in Spain started this? Errr… those EUROPEANS!!! This injustice must be undone.
It just seems patently unfair that those with the highest VO2max are not the most efficient/economical. That means that these socialist Spanish-Europeans are trying to bring everyone down to the same level, to redistribute the fitness so that those with the highest fitness (VO2max) cannot stay ahead of those with lower fitness (VO2max). It’s a simple matter of fairness. Those who were born with a high fitness (VO2max) should be able to retain that advantage over those who were not born with high fitness. They should even be able to keep it when they die. It’s competition and it’s what made endurance sport great. Now it’s being destroyed by those with a radical socialist agenda.
Crumbling edifices…
I’m not saying physiology was vastly different before the study was published
I’ll go out on a limb and say that the trend existed before the study was published. Let’s call the trend
Schrodinger’s cat though.