In the August 2004 issue of Inside Triathlon Tom Denes, in “Flying through the water,” advocates an s-shaped pull in freestyle.
Although I was taught such a pull as a kid, a college coach “cured” me of it, encouraging me instead to just reach out, get “over the barrel”, catch the water, and pull straight back to my leg. Sideways hand motion “slipped” water and was to be avoided.
Are you guys straight- or “s”-pullers? Why?
I recall reading somewhere that the “S” stroke is really an effect of a proper stroke, rather than a “cause.” So, if you are catching well, etc., the arm may move like that, but you should not be trying to make the S. I’m sure far more experienced people can shed much more light on your question though.
A coach showed me the s-stroke a couple of years ago and I’ve worked my half IM time from Ralphs down from 31 to 28 this year. I think it works, although maybe I just suck at the straight pull technique. Who knows.
Celeb
The ‘S’ pull could be classed as a more traditional way of swimming F/C. When Popov came on the scene he changed the way of thinking. The ‘S’ pull is such because it facilitates a good feel for the water, where the swimmer strives to search for still water. It is indeed therefore a cause of good feel, and you should not try to create an ‘S’. The ‘newer’ way is to swim more like Popov, as you say over the barrel, or to try and ‘get on top of the water’. There are arguments that say this is more powerful, and indeed, if you watch any top swimmer, they are likely to swim like this (I’m talking about people who can do under 50s for 100m F/C).
If you are a strong swimmer, with an efficient stoke and you are doing the ‘S’ pull, then it’s up to you whether you spend some time trying to develop a different style. Long term you should see some speed increases (and some bigger triceps!)
Hope this helps
This is what Doug Stern posted here in Feb about the S-stroke:
"…I was a lift oriented junkie until 1988. I took a clinic with former Olympians. John Moffit (olympic champion in 100 and 200 meters breaststroke and world class IMer) was the coach of my lane. When it was my turn to swim I did a perfect S stroke. John commented that my stroke was just like the books to perfection. Then he destroyed me. He said, “we do not swim like that.” “We pull straight back.” I was crushed. It took me three months of diligent practice to learn the new way. I was pisssed off and frustrated. It took me almost 20 years to really groove in this S pattern. After 3 months I hit the at the age of 46 I hit the fastest 1650 of my life (20:46). I stopped teaching the S stroke.
In 1994 there was new research investigated the lift properties of the hand and arm. The hand is in fact a perfect foil but it is too small relative to the entire arm to create sufficient lift. A straight back pull utilizing drag forces is much more efficient. The Aussies in the 2000 Olympics demonstrated how the hip first drag force stroke could work. It keep your shoulders higher in the water and allows the kick to be propulsive…"
That’s good enough for me – if Doug Stern says don’t s-stroke, I don’t s-stroke.
I was taught a S stroke in the 1970s and have always used it (except for that 18 year break from swimming that ended last year). As a 40 year old doing triathlons for fun, I am swimming far faster than I bike or run and see no reason to play with my stroke too much.
This seems to be a subject of considerable debate. I ran across an article on the web recently either written by Jonty Skinner or that was an interview with him. Jonty Skinner could not swim in the 1976 games because he was from South Africa so he swam a 49.44 100 meters to shatter the world record a few weeks later in a very shallow pool that was old back in 1976. Probably wearing a baggy nylon suit when he did it. He explained the history of the straight pull versus the S stroke and advocated the merits of the S stroke, especially for distance and long course swimming. I think this is probably one of those subjects that will go back and forth over time.
I think you’re absolutely right. This will be debated for eternity. For example, I was having my stoke analysed in an endless pool by one of the top UK coaches. They had an underwater camera etc. The cranked the machine up to full tilt (and it hurt I’ll tell you!!!). They then went through my stroke. The top guy only had one criticism, and that was when I was swimming full tilt, but the other guy was like, hmm, your pull still has a slight S in it. Without me saying anything they then debated. The more experienced coach was trying to explain that as the feel for the water was so good, it wasn’t a problem.
Only using myself here as an example I think clearly shows what seems to be the general consensus here: If you are a strong efficient swimmer who still swims with an S stoke (or a slight S stoke), yet you are a FOP Tri swimmer, then is it really worth loosing a little time to start with, to ultimately end up back at the FOP when you have ‘perfected’ the deeper pull?
In “Swimming Fastest” Maglischo uses observations of the fastest swimmers to show that none of them push straight backwards - instead all of them push at an angle to the water in all four swimming styles. The problem with pushing straight backwards is that the “column” of water you’re pushing on starts moving backwards, so the push is less effective. By angling the stroke you can keep pushing on still water. However, this doesn’t necessarily require an S-shaped stroke in freestyle (though that does allow the application of two push phases), and some of the angling will result from body roll. Not sure how this relates to Doug Stern’s views. I do know that as soon as I stopped trying to push straight backwards (as advised by Laughlin in the TI book) and started following Maglischo’s advise I got 15% faster in 10 days, going from abysmally slow to mediocrely fast. This was after four months of masters sessions during which I hadn’t improved at all.
we s’ed in high school. based on the newest research, i now pull straight back, really at a natural angle with rolling, and still get the little slightly s’ed bubbles upon entry (which stay do no go past that half of my face)
swimming fastest is still somewhat of an older book (mid to late 90’s?) so ernie may be a little out of date.
I was taught to “s” stroke while young and then after reading the magazine swimming technique about the “aussie stroke”-catch deep and then pull straight while decreasing the depth of your hand until it exits the water (in terms of distance swimming, not for sprinting). in high school i as a 5:02 500 freestyler and by the end of my junior year of d3 swimming in college i was 4:41 which is a decent drop in my mind.
overall though, i think that you should pull in whatever way feels better for you, especially if you’re not going to be putting in huge pool time, because without doing so it may be tough to acclimate to a new stroke.
swimming fastest is still somewhat of an older book (mid to late 90’s?) so ernie may be a little out of date.
It was published in 2003, about 20 years after Swimming Faster and 10 years after Swimming Even Faster. I personally trust videotaped observations of what the fastest swimmer’s hands/arms do over a coach’s opinions of what hands/arms should be doing.
The latest version of ‘Swimming Fastest’ came out in early 2003.
catch deep and then pull straight while decreasing the depth of your hand until it exits the water
Which fits in with the analysis in Swimming Fastest in that the hand movement is angled relative to the direction of motion. It is not a straight pull backwards.
If you use “proper” (which seems to change over the years) swimming technique, your hand will travel in a “S” direction thru the water without even trying. The power of each strokes starts from the core of the body and the kick of the opposite leg. As your hand enters the water and you start your catch and pull, the natural roll of your body on extention will cause your hand to form an “S” shape traveling thru the water in a straight back direction. You do not have to put any effort in achieving this. That’s why you should just think about pulling your hand straight back and not worry about other movements during your pull. Some coaches tell you to just think about making a handhole in the water and pulling your body past it. Just another way of telling you to just pull straight back.
By “angled backwards” -are we talking from “deep to shallow” or from midline entry to a bit further away as you pull back- or the opposite- entry wide and pulling slightly toward your body. ??
Any of these. The important part is that a stroke is effective when it is angled relative to your direction of motion. So, for instance, video stroke analysis that compares hand position to the speed of the swimmer shows that, during an S-shaped stroke, it was when the hand is pushing back at an angle to the water that the swimmer accelerates. Because of this, the swimmer can achieve multiple periods of pushing during one stroke. That is why an S-shaped stroke can be very effective.
ill agree with some of the other posters… Poppov, and his coach, Gennadi Touretzski, revolutionized the stroke in the early 90’s and since then i believe that this is by far the form of technique they teach in the USS programs… it was what i was schooled on and still swim with that form today. the s-pull, popularized by Mark Spitz and Doc Councilman at Indiana, has been proven inefficient in the turning and twisting of the hand as it is pulled back through the fluid enviornment.
i could go on about this for hours… 
let me know if you guys want more
yeah, like you know anything about swimming! 
http://www.swim.ee offers quite a bit of good info on stoke techniques, the videos are quite nice but slow loading
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Something to keep in mind:
My daughter is 10. She is attending swim camp this week. She got a night off last night to attend a summer league swim meet. She swam the 50 m fly and dropped her time by 2 seconds from what she did last week.
I asked her is she had learned something new at camp. She told me they made a change in her stroke and she used the change in the race. The change they suggested was basically do the butterfly version of the “S” stroke. But she also told me that when she told her current coach (who is a very good coach BTW) what the camp coaches told her and he told her they were wrong and she should stick with what he told her to do. Despite this, she made the decision to use her new technique in the race because it felt faster to her but she was a little concerned about being caught between battling experts.
Watch the clock – it never lies.
The point of this story is that it is much more important to do what is right for your particular situation than it is to just follow generalized “expert” advice.