Reason for asking is there are two good solid rides near me. But, about anywhere from 20-70 cyclists show up (from Cat 1 to Cat 5). For reference, with regards to TT Power, I would be around a Cat 3. The problem is one of these rides is known to be dangerous, and in total disregard of the rules (Gimbels). The other ride (Nyack Rocket Ride), might also be more of the same. The only way I will know, is to try them. But, before I try the other and risk riding with a group that might blow through traffic lights and put my life at risk, I would like to ask, What do many of the Fastest Cyclists in our sport do - Solo, Few Friends, or group rides?
Currently I ride solo or with one or two other people. I like doing this, but am wondering if I should do something different as well.
Rappstar, since you lived in the Westchester area once, do you have any experience (or comment) about any of these groups?
There are 3 group rides around me. Here is the typical physiological responses of them
A - Pull at the front (VO2), sit in pack (recovery)
B - Pull at the front (Anaerobic), sit in pack (recovery)
C - Hilly (VO2), Fast Paceline (80% Threshold), sit in pack (recovery)
None of these options are the most efficient for improving threshold. If you want to focus on increasing your threshold you should be doing solo intervals, and small group rides (3-5people) with no stops, and a few solo rides focused on specificity. The group rides are great leading in road race/crit season but you need to examine the physiological needs of the group rides and determine if they fit what you should be doing at that point in time.
I would also add if sitting in the pack puts you in the middle of your threshold zone, it may not be a bad thing. All group rides are different and you need to weigh the pros and cons.
Chris, I’ve ridden both, the Nyack and the Gimbels ride, although I prefer the Rocket ride, since it’s easier accessible for me. I think the changes of crashes are there for either one, since people treat those rides quite a bit as a race. The best recommendation is to stay in the front 10 and rotate, especially once the ride progresses and riders become more tired in the rear end. In 3 years of riding it about 20 times a year, I’ve gone down once, with nothing serious happening to me.
The pace really depends on who shows up that weekend, and how willing everyone is to work the front. It’s always a good session for me.
I’m planning to go next weekend, if it’s not too cold or rainy. I will ride up from Manhattan, and meet the group on 501.
any group over 50 (you said 20-70) is going to be trouble (unless all 1/2/3, even then, pack mentality and all). This is why USACycling limits Cat 5 road races to 50 max. No harm in doing the rides, just decide what kind of training you are trying to get out of it (if any). Nothing wrong with handing at the rear and making a social ride out of it. In fact, I’ll occasionally use these type of rides as a forced easy ride with great people I rarely get to talk with at the back. As another poster mentioned, a time trialist/triathlete won’t get much out of a mixed roadie crowd ride in most cases, but might break up midweek solo training boredom.
Most Cat 1/2 and 3 guys around here train in small groups (usually their race teams or other teams in the area) of 5-10. We all do our solo intervals/hill repeats, etc. and generally “race into shape” with a spring series with a race every weekend for a few months. I/we certainly know the road racers around here and we stick together and try to avoid the mixed large group rides (as fast or spirited as they may be - they frequently go down as well, usually end of the summer when everyone is fit/fast and even a Cat 1 guy pulling up front can’t shake an entire charging peloton late in the season)
X2. A group ride that big would be scary unless you can stay near the front. The most terrified I’ve been on a ride was the first Levi’s Gran Fondo. I was sitting about 20th wheel around all pros and guys I race with. People from the back would roar up to the front trying to get a look a Levi. Then they’d end up mixed in with all of us and have no right being there. There was a ~15 min section at close to 30mph and all of the racers were comfortable in tight, but then you’d get a Fred who’d spaz out anytime somebody got to close to him. It felt like we were on the edge of a huge wreck for an eternity.
Anyhow, around here we mostly train in small groups or solo. Typically it’s alone during the week for very specific workouts and then with a few other like-minded racers (e.g. save the big efforts for racing) on weekend long rides
Rappstar, since you lived in the Westchester area once, do you have any experience (or comment) about any of these groups?
I don’t really like to train with other people. And I certainly do not big groups. I never had any desire to do either of those rides, and I never did them. I actually have even less desire now to train with a group - especially a big one of people I don’t know - because crashes happen in big groups.
Most of the top tier riders alternate between group rides and solo rides. For group rides, they often work on tactics, chases, or simply hammerfests. For solo work, its typical to see hill repeats, sprinting exercises, Zone 2, etc. take place.
Personally, for fitness purposes I try to limit my group riding to once, maybe twice a week. Large pack riding can be great for learning how a peloton works, but if you ride it too often you can hurt yourself in the end (not enough effort work, too much time in recovery). I personally had a sudden drop in my power this last September because I was doing nothing but group rides and I lost most of my muscular endurance. It took me about 2 weeks of Zone 2 to recover most of what I had lost.
Try to find what works for you. The large pack riding can be very fun, and I encourage you to at least try it out. Running through red lights typically will only happen if the first wave of cyclists go through, and at that point everyone else will follow. It’s usually pretty safe, but accidents do occur, so be careful.
The larger group rides tend to be pretty inefficient in terms of time and focused training. It can be fun to see everyone and say hello, but for training I prefer to ride alone or especially like to ride with a small group of about 5 or fewer people. I like people who are punctual, stick to the workout, ride safe, don’t talk about bikes the whole time and like to do the work without making it a race. it’s tough to find the right people. Big group rides tend to just cause a lot of trouble for cyclists.
When I train it is usually with two other guys. We are usually in the same ballpark performance-wise. But I have ridden solo on occasion. The few times I’ve done a group ride I end up soft pedaling and averaging 18ish on a flat ride.
That said, why does a Triathlete need to understand a peloton? Don’t we need to practice passing and handling while staying 3 lengths back? (This is BOTH sarcastic and a little serious).
x3, I train with 1 or 2 other people. Now I do like the local group ride for social value during the summer. So, when I can, I do my serious work alone or with 1 other guy who’s physiology and psychology is similar to mine. he’s a road racer so we adapt our plans by pulling more or sitting in more. For the group stuff, my group has a weekday morning ride, 5:30-6:30am, wow. Guys like me, sane folks with jobs and families. We go hard in sets of 5-10 minutes (~280-350W) then slow down to let everyone catch up. Weekends are often too slow, so I join them for a warm up, then depart on my own agenda. The best ride last summer was about 1.5 hours of chatting and warm up, then a solo TT home (30 miles) for me.
Watch out for the group crash. My bud was taken out last July by “a guy” who showed up once for that ride. He missed 6 weeks with a “minor” pelvic fracture
One point that seems to be missed here is that as triathletes we do not have an oppportunity to draft in races (no comment). Riding in a pack really just teaches you how to draft. I did 40 miles on my own with some good headwind last Sunday and then I had a chance to drop in a fairly fast group. Boy that was a nice break but was I really doing what I should be doing for race training? I think not.
The other aspect about a group ride is the safety component. Too many crashes from inattention or simple stupidity.
A small group (3 maybe 4) is fine in most instances so long as the followers understand that they can’t complain about the pace so long as they are drafting. I’m happy to pull and it is nice to be able to let someone else do the work for a while so I can take a break. But there are no breaks in races.
I’ve heard that Fabian Cancellera prefers training on his own even though many times he is riding in the peloton. To me FC is the bee’s knees and that tells me alot.
, other than getting your heart rate elevated when moving really quickly (>25 ) or s
Thank you for all the replies. I now can make an educated decision. I know I really like to hammer solo, but find it boring sometimes to ride alone. Groups in my area seem to talk smack a lot (probably every area), with some people able to produce, and others, not. Either way the things I never liked about group riding - being unsafe, coasting, simply VO2ing too much on a long ride, or sprinting a lot. Ironically I would say my sprint speed is up there with the best. Why, I have no idea, but I don’t like doing this too much, cus it is not that applicable to triathlon. I think I will hold off on training with some of these groups, at least for the winter months. I sure as hell don’t want to start racing these people when the road conditions are crap. But, in all honesty I will probably ride solo - max 6 people of who I know are safe.
I’m local to the Rocket Ride and have never done it, even though a few of my club members (Toga) do it. They enjoy it and swear it makes them stronger. I may join them in the spring but, like you, I still have my reservations. We tend to get a smaller group (5-6) guys and do the route on our own. A lot less stress. And testosterone.
