I think I may have come up with the elegant solution for this problem, I will not be an empty nester until I’m 80 years old or so. My wife will be approaching 60 at that time, so we will both just pack up the motorhome and hit the road, waiting for the eventual grandkids. Of course I will have to live to 90 to see them probably, but should be doable unless some truck takes me out or cancer decides it wants my body.
But even now I have the struggles you all have, just have a bit more patience and time to deal with them. I need to try to work on my wife more, the kids do present a total energy suck at times. I’m just very lucky in that she turned out to me mom of the year, every year. So for now that empty nest is well into the future, but most who are there or about to be always say it goes by fast so don’t blink!!
Empty Nest Divorce when the last kids leaves the home or goes off to university, is actually one of the top times for divorce. Reason - many couples do stay together, “for the kids”. (more on that in a second). It’s so bad that many universities have counselors on campus to deal specifically with this issue.
Good reads on this are by Judith Wallerstein (google her). Many parents as noted, decide to stay together for the sake of the kids. They THINK they are doing the right thing - but kids are VERY perspective - much more-so than we think. They see/hear EVERYTHING. So, many of these parents put on an act of a good marriage, and those are the good ones - but the kids will see though that act - and then the worst ones are when the relationship is toxic, (but sometimes livable). Remember, parents are the most influential role models on kids! And what you are showing them is how NOT to truly live a fully loving and happy marriage.
Fast forward to the freshman at University - they get the news that Mom & Dad are divorcing, which can be trauma point number 1. The second trauma point with that is when it dawns on the kid that the parents stayed together FOR THEM (they’ll hear that somehow) - thus, now knowing their parents gave up some great years of their life to live in an un-loving and un-happy marriage - they feel MASSIVE guilt about this! And as noted, their sense of what a proper loving and happy marriage has been warped and distorted.
In short - staying together for the kids, is NOT a good idea!
My wife and I are enjoying the hell out of it. As she said, “it’s like dating again, but this time we have money.”
^^This. Friday is Date Night and we generally dress nicer than board shorts and workout gear which is standard fare the other nights of the week. We might not even leave the couch but it is our time.
How does a couple let this happen?
Well, they could have made it as long as they did for the children. Or at least the good of the children factored heavily into the decision.
Yup. Stay together for the kids.
A terrible decision. But many do this.
Oh good, a cliche. Always nice to get those on the table.
What part is the cliche? That people say (and do) this? (They do) or that it’s a terrible decision? (It is)
The cliche is that it’s automatically a terrible decision. It seems like a totally unexamined assumption IMHO.
First, there’s all kinds of science that concludes children of married couples do better on a variety of levels. Second, it’s stupid to suggest that the kids not even enter into the decision. And that’s the only way to ensure you aren’t staying together for the kids. “Yeah, we had kids, but fuck it if their well being is going to enter our minds when it comes to such an important decision.”
For me it would actually be the other way around. Staying together for the kids is – by default – the best decision for the kids unless you’ve got extreme circumstances that would warrant a different decision. In other words, unless you were getting divorced for the kids.
I dunno. Maybe there’s a cliche there too. Is getting divorced for the kids always a terrible decision?
Well, we can all look forward to you driving around your RV when you’re 80 yrs old!
Our plan is to jump on our sailboat in 2 yrs as soon as kid #2 leaves for college and take off on an open ended trip. Maybe we’ll just make San Diego and hang out or maybe we’ll make it around the world, doesn’t really matter. The goal is to shake up the routine and rely on each other - our kids will have to fly to wherever we are when they have their breaks.
Hopefully, it works out and we can pull it off. We did this for 6 months when our girls were 3 and 5 and we had a great time exploring Mexico and the Sea of Cortez.
How does a couple let this happen?
Well, they could have made it as long as they did for the children. Or at least the good of the children factored heavily into the decision.
Yup. Stay together for the kids.
A terrible decision. But many do this.
Oh good, a cliche. Always nice to get those on the table.
What part is the cliche? That people say (and do) this? (They do) or that it’s a terrible decision? (It is)
The cliche is that it’s automatically a terrible decision. It seems like a totally unexamined assumption IMHO.
First, there’s all kinds of science that concludes children of married couples do better on a variety of levels. Second, it’s stupid to suggest that the kids not even enter into the decision. And that’s the only way to ensure you aren’t staying together for the kids. “Yeah, we had kids, but fuck it if their well being is going to enter our minds when it comes to such an important decision.”
For me it would actually be the other way around. Staying together for the kids is – by default – the best decision for the kids unless you’ve got extreme circumstances that would warrant a different decision. In other words, unless you were getting divorced for the kids.
I dunno. Maybe there’s a cliche there too. Is getting divorced for the kids always a terrible decision?
Well the vast majority of couples will fight non stop if they are staying together “for the kids”. This is not good.
If (big if) you can live together amicably and raise kids together then great. But that is very rare.
Well the vast majority of couples will fight non stop if they are staying together “for the kids”. This is not good.
If (big if) you can live together amicably and raise kids together then great. But that is very rare.
D’Wife were having a bad time many years ago, and things looked like it would be the end
I’d go to bed and silently say to her “Sleep well. I’ll likely divorce you in the morning”
Well, much like Wesley and The Dread Pirate Roberts, it didn’t exactly work out that way; today is our 25th Wedding Anniversary
About six months ago I got into a pretty heated argument with the missus. I told her “you answer me like that again, and I’ll give you half of everything I own.” That straightened her up.
But even now I have the struggles you all have, just have a bit more patience and time to deal with them. I need to try to work on my wife more, the kids do present a total energy suck at times. I’m just very lucky in that she turned out to me mom of the year, every year. So for now that empty nest is well into the future, but most who are there or about to be always say it goes by fast so don’t blink!!
Cant help but wonder if there’s any significant differentiation in the trendlines depending on how long a couple was together prior to starting a family. My wife and I were a pair for a good 8-9 years prior to kid #1, so we have a decent track record of doing stuff together w/o having everything revolving around the kids, and don’t have such a hard time reverting back to that when they’re gone for whatever reason. We just had the older one move back in for the summer, and we’re definitely eager to help him, uh, “re-establish his independence…”
I was thinking the same earlier - wife and I were married for 5 yrs before kids and traveled together extensively during that time and settled in a bit. I can see kiddos earlier on wouldn’t allow the marriage to settle in. The divorce rate has increased dramatically in the past 10 yrs which I would expect is a combination of what you suggested plus the general cultural sentiment in prior generations that one doesn’t divorce (particularly women). The studies I read stated that women are the main drivers of the divorces of empty nesters so that seems to correlate.
The divorce rate has increased dramatically in the past 10 yrs …
Really? Do you have a link for that? I could expect a blip rise in divorce rates, but the trend for the past 30 years has been a drop in divorce rates.
There’s a link in the OP…this is specifically related to ‘empy nesters’ as per my OP.
Here’s a snippet:
“These women have plenty of company. Since 1990 the divorce ratehas doubled to 1 in 4 for couples over age 50. And researchers found after age 40 it’s often the wife who wants the divorce.”
This is a tricky situation and, frankly, I fear it happening in 15 years.
Sometimes the most brave thing a person can do is stay & be there for their family and kids, even if they take no grand action. Sometimes the most brave thing a person can do is divorce earlier on. Sometimes it’s a clear decision; most of the time it’s not. And nobody else knows the war better than those in that war.
It’s just not clear cut, and I can absolutely see how and why it happens.
