Discouraged

Triathlon Forum
1

All,

I’m VERY new as a swimmer, as in this year. Recently at a sprint-tri, my second sprint of my illustrious career - I was disgusted with my 25:33/m swim. I don’t know what I expected, but I wanted better than that.

In your experience do you find that the biggest gains, for swim time/pace, are found in a new swimmer from technique or endurance? Or yes (both are equally important)?

Maybe I’m just hoping to glean on some insights based on conversation regarding contributors to slow times. Maybe I’m just a big sniveling crying baby over my garbage time. Either way, I’m interested in your thoughts.

-John

2

25:33/m … is that… per mile?

That’s not that bad if so. But it’s technique. Endurance will come. Good technique makes you faster, and makes you go longer because it’s easier/faster.

3

25:33/mile? that’s not disgustingly slow, especially for a new swimmer.

4

They go hand in hand. With endurance, your body will try to adjust the technique to reduce wasted energy. The more tired you get, the more likely you are to adapt to more efficient ways to swim (or drown). The more effecient you are at swimming, the easier it will be to gain endurance.

It helps to get a kick start from a friend or coach to point out some obvious stuff, then just get your butt to the pool and swim as long as you can, reducing the rest periods inbetween.

5

I am new to swimming as well didn’t start swimming until March. I took lessons to learn technique for 6 weeks after that it was just practice time. If you put in the time the speed and efficiency will come.

6

I made the greatest improvement by using the swim as recovery, almost exclusively working on technique. If your form sucks (as mine did) I don’t see a lot of value in just flailing away. Swimming easy left me fresher to work hard on the bike and run. By technique I don’t mean drills. I did a lot of 50s at with a tempo trainer, taking only as much rest as needed to keep my form from falling apart. This approach will only take you so far though, at some point you have to start swimming a lot harder to get faster.

7

I started swimming about two years ago. It wasn’t really swimming it was more flopping around in the water with some occasional forward motion. The first thing I had to conquer was my breathing and my comfort level in the water. It’s very easy to get out in the open water (or even in a pool) and start freaking out, this causes your heart rate to skyrocket, which causes you to lose your breath, which causes you to stop.

strength, technique, body positioning…it’s all important but until you are comfortable in the water it really doesn’t matter.

8

I want a million dollars. I don’t know what I expected, but I wanted better than that.

First off - what does 25:33 /m mean?? If that’s your per-mile swim split (which is very odd, for a SPRINT distance event, where the swim would likely be < a mile) - then congrats!
I’ve never swam that fast in my life!! (ok - not saying much)

Secondly - how can you be discouraged yet? You’ve only just begun.
That’s like being pissed you can’t break 3 hours for a marathon, when you just did your first 5k this year.

Lastly - try Finding Freestyle. Google it, I won’t post a link.
Best $ I’ve ever spent on swim training, and I’ve tried almost everything at one point or another.

9

The distance is/was a .8 with some river current. I get UBER gassed, worked with an awesome coach. I do have a hard time making, pool time (more so than run/bike). I’m beginning to think I’ll have to wait a few years before I see appreciable gains in swimming. Without my coach I think I would have died in the water - he did great - I was just curious to poll a large community for/from personal experience.

Do people build an endurance base regarding swimming, just as with running, in the winter? Possibly, if I take this approach I can measure my results in this same race next year after a winter in the water.

10

Fair enough. 25:33/m was my own personal codification everyone was just supposed to inherently, know. I make the .8 mile swim in 25 minutes and 33 seconds.

The discouragement drives me - so I’m cool with it, however, I’m discouraged (more on the frustrated/angry side) none the less. I did spend time in the pool training - now I have a goal pace/rate to aim at, however, I’m still interested in the question of technique and stamina. Also, in knowing, other than time in the water - are there other ‘things’ one can do to gain stamina for the swim?

My results in age group:

**Men 30 - 34 ** 3 1 Timothy Felegie, 34 1:10:52 7 2 Ashley Sollenberger, 30 1:12:11 8 3 Aaron Faro, 31 1:12:50 9 4 Timothy Otto, 30 1:13:07 13 5 Ian Maffett, 30 1:14:14 20 6 Matthew Teeter, 34 1:16:26 22 7 Andrew DiPiano, 31 1:16:29 27 8 Dave Kochenour, 31 1:17:56 40 9 William Gowin, 34 1:19:46 44 10 Ingo Gulde, 34 1:21:15 46 11 David Bucko, 34 1:21:45 49 12 Falcone Michael, 33 1:22:40 53 13 Kyle Letner, 33 1:23:21 70 14 Nicholas Otto, 33 1:26:43 74 15 Quentin Kushner, 33 1:27:09 81 16 Brian Rutter, 31 1:27:50 99 17 Jeff Roe, 30 1:30:59 108 18 Brandon Pacifico, 33 1:32:02 111 19 Mark Nenstiel, 30 1:32:27 113 20 Bryan Boyer, 34 1:32:42 130 21 Michael Ferritto, 31 1:34:35 138 22 Justin Eckenrode, 31 1:35:31 147 23 John Weathersby, 33 1:36:36 167 24 Brandon Hill, 30 1:39:45 175 25 Eric Laws, 32 1:40:26 191 26 Nate Baker, 32 1:43:29 194 27 Luke Sheaffer, 30 1:43:42 260 28 Brian Rousseau, 34 2:04:46 261 29 Jason Peters, 31 2:04:47

11

When I first started Tri, in spite of belonging to a pool club my entire life, I couldn’t swim more than 25m w/o getting totally gassed and out of breath. (yes, I know - hard to believe, right? :wink:

Technique has SO much to do with it.
Which includes:
breathing - how to, when to (hard to focus on anything else when you think you’re suffocating)
position - what is correct, and how to attain it, and maintain it (and you’re never doing what you think you’re doing)
and so much more…

Live, in-person swim coaching is probably the best thing you can do to make the most rapid improvements.
Video taping of your “stroke” is very helpful as well.
Having immediate correction and feedback is invaluable to the adult-onset “swimmer”.
(and you really, really should google Finding Freestyle. SRSLY)

Good luck. And don’t beat yourself up too badly. You have nowhere to go but up.

12

Yes, a pull buoy and paddles. Fins. Toys. It keeps things interesting. Mostly paddles and pull buoys. Get the smallest paddles though so you don’t hurt your shoulders.

13

No doubt. (googling Finding Freestyle now).

Also, I’m curious - as I’m mostly new to the forums, do people share videos for gait/technique critique, here?

14

If we could obsess with our “hydro position” in the swim as much as we do our “aero position” on the bike, I think it would be all good stuff.

I am in the process of learning how to swim, have an OW race in 4 weeks too.

What I have discovered is the position of the head vis a vis the shoulders, upper arm and lower arm/hand position is so crucial to reducing frontal drag - as water is the most dense medium we move in. The faster you go the more important this position is.

there is a left side and right side position (mirror image) that must be hit on the timing marks wrt to hip rotation with every stroke, & done symmetrically. At least that is my newbie interpretation for now.

15

look at Total immersion http://www.totalimmersion.net/

25 for .8 is not bad, for a newbie
.

16

All,

I’m VERY new as a swimmer, as in this year. Recently at a sprint-tri, my second sprint of my illustrious career - I was disgusted with my 25:33/m swim. I don’t know what I expected, but I wanted better than that.

In your experience do you find that the biggest gains, for swim time/pace, are found in a new swimmer from technique or endurance? Or yes (both are equally important)?

Maybe I’m just hoping to glean on some insights based on conversation regarding contributors to slow times. Maybe I’m just a big sniveling crying baby over my garbage time. Either way, I’m interested in your thoughts.

-John

0.8 mile river swim with minor current? Was that the Catish in Harrisburg, PA.

My first year in triathlon (2007) I swam 21:00 at Catfish with much more current. I’ve done the race 4 times now and have swam anywhere from 15:00 to 18:00 the other 3 times depending on the current. Not great but a huge improvement.

Work on technique and swim a lot. My biggest gains in swimming were when I swam 4-5 times a week for 2-3 months straight. Improvement will come…just be patient and dedicate time to the pool. Use this winter and set up camp at the pool.

I’m still not a fast swimmer (and probably never will be) but I’m not giving up HUGE chuncks of time on the swim anymore and I come out of the water feeling fresh.

Good luck.

17

Bob - yes it was the catfish. I’ll definitely do it again next year and compare times - I fear the answer is TONS of time int he water, as you and other are suggesting, with some concentration on form/technique.

There are some interesting resources that have been provided for this too, finding free style and effortless - I may look into them. I need to find a good pool situation. I had a family membership to the Friendship Center, but it just wasn’t worth the expense to swim 3 times a week at that rate.

18

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

You got ML to offer advice on a swimming thread!

Hell hath truly frozen over and no amount of global warming is bringin’ it back.

19

look at Total immersion http://www.totalimmersion.net/

+1 TI swimmers are so smooth
.

20

Who knows more about going from crap to mediocre swimming than me? I’ve been working on it for over a decade. :-p

PS - Total Aversion ™ is working like a charm for me this year. I’m a big fan.
Last nite I swam only ~:03/100 off my pb from last year for the club sprint, sans Water Rover, and sans swim training.
It was my 5th swim since Savageman last Sept.