Did Indurain Dope?

Indurain has to be one of my favorite cyclist of all time. I even got to see him up close at the '96 Olympics. One has to wonder if he was on some magic O.J. as well but few people ever bring him up. Does it even matter? Probably not but he was a 5 time consecutive TDF winner, The Giro in '94 the World Hour Record, World Champion TT champ as well as winning the Dauphine Libere and many many more. His reign was in Spain where dope flowed mainly through the vain!

What are your takes on the Extra Terrestrial?

He and his Banesto team went for a training camp to Ferrara/Italia in February 1992. Ferrara is in the Po valley, therefore dead flat. The next incline is 30 miles from there (behind Bologna). Temperatures are usually in the 40s at most during February. Lots of chilly fog.
The president of Ferrara University was a certain Dottore Conconi. He was a mentor of a Dottore called Michele Ferrari.

Who didnt…I mean other than Greg and Lance that is…

Miguel finally got beaten for the TdF crown in 1996 by Bjarn Mr. 60% Riis. Just for my sanity, I truly hope that Miguel was clean…the 1996 Telekom Team was doped to the gills…here is the summary on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Tour_de_France

Who didnt…I mean other than Greg and Lance that is…
Don’t forget about Floyd and Tyler. Also Rodger Clemens. I mean, they are a-MER-icans. How can anyone have the cajones to accuse righteous, god-fearing a-MER-icans of doing drugs? Euros? Of course. But never an a-MER-ican.

They were “clean for the day”…I mean, today they would be filthy dirty, but in 1989 you could drive drunk and the cops would let you drive home too…

If you believe the Padilla paper, Indurain put out a little less than 6.3 w/kg for his hour record. That’s incredible…but it’s not ‘incredible’.

That’s if you believe the Padilla paper… (I don’t–I think they fudged the CdA figure, despite claiming that it’s from the wind tunnel, I’m just not sure I buy it).

OTOH, he was racing during doping’s absolute hey day. I guess only he and his handlers will really ever know for sure…

I’m not sure whether going after our hero’s of the past does anything more than make us bitter. Let them remain our hero’s. Muck raking in the past does no one any good.

If you think he didn’t dope, then I think you’ve got your head in the sand. Be realistic.

http://i30.tinypic.com/1z2q4k7.jpg
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The president of Ferrara University was a certain Dottore Conconi. He was a mentor of a Dottore called Michele Ferrari.

Conconi was also the mentor of Chechini, the other big Italian prepatore. I’m not sure where I read it or if I can find it, according to the story Indurain was taken by the Banesto DS Eusebio Unzue to Chechini very early on in his career and he was Indurain’s prepatore. Chechini is credited with discovering that growth hormone potentiated the blood boosting effects of EPO.

Anyway the gist seemed to be that Indurain may have gotten a jump on the peloton and been boosting earlier than most since the Gewiss team with members such as Riis and Berzin and prepared by Ferrari in '93-94 (approximately 5 years after EPO went on the market) is suppose to be the point when the wave broke in the peloton and it was demonstrated that without EPO you could not compete.

Interestingly Indurain’s career was pretty much unaffected by the “EPO revolution” as he didn’t fall until a couple of years after it’s use became ubiquitous.

I have this memory of him having been banned for a two month period in the off season. I went through this with the British Hero Malcolm Ellott. I had a recollection that he had been popped for doping in a race I was in, but the Brits here swore up and down it never happened. This stuff is really buried, and I began to doubt my memory, until someone found the obscure article that confirmed my memory. He did not even get relegated in the race either, it was really a quiet hand slap in those days. Same with Levi, he is percieved as being ultra clean, until an old bust gets the dust blown off it…

I can’t find it anywhere, but perhaps someone else who was racing back then also remembers. It’s like all that stuff just disappeared and never happened. My personal opinion is that he was on a level playing field with the best riders of the time…

Does Levi have an old bust?

Who didnt…I mean other than Greg and Lance that is…
Personally, I don’t really care one way or the other. The only people I care if they are doping are the ones I’m competing against. Of course, they could be too, it’s not too many races that test the AG’s.

John

Top 20 from the TdF 1996…the year that Indurain went down…count those subsequently nailed as dopers in this group…I count at least 10 that I know of:
edit] General classification
Rank Cyclist name Team Time 1. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Flag_of_Denmark.svg/22px-Flag_of_Denmark.svg.png Bjarne Riis (DEN) ‡ Team Telekom 95:57:16 2. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Flag_of_Germany.svg/22px-Flag_of_Germany.svg.png Jan Ullrich (GER) Team Telekom + 1.41 3. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Flag_of_France.svg/22px-Flag_of_France.svg.png Richard Virenque (FRA) Festina + 4.37 4. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Flag_of_Switzerland.svg/20px-Flag_of_Switzerland.svg.png Laurent Dufaux (SUI) Festina + 5.35 5. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Flag_of_Austria.svg/22px-Flag_of_Austria.svg.png Peter Luttenberger (AUT) Carrera Jeans + 7.07 6. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Flag_of_France.svg/22px-Flag_of_France.svg.png Luc Leblanc (FRA) Team Polti + 10.03 7. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Flag_of_Latvia.svg/22px-Flag_of_Latvia.svg.png Piotr Ugrumov (LAT) Roslotto + 10.04 8. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Flag_of_Spain.svg/22px-Flag_of_Spain.svg.png Fernando Escartín (ESP) Kelme + 10.26 9. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Flag_of_Spain.svg/22px-Flag_of_Spain.svg.png Abraham Olano (ESP) Mapei + 11.00 10. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Flag_of_Switzerland.svg/20px-Flag_of_Switzerland.svg.png Tony Rominger (SUI) Mapei + 11.53 11. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Flag_of_Spain.svg/22px-Flag_of_Spain.svg.png Miguel Indurain (ESP) Banesto + 14.14 12. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Flag_of_Australia.svg/22px-Flag_of_Australia.svg.png Patrick Jonker (AUS) ONCE + 18.58 13. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Flag_of_Denmark.svg/22px-Flag_of_Denmark.svg.png Bo Hamburger (DEN) TVM + 22.19 14. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Flag_of_Germany.svg/22px-Flag_of_Germany.svg.png Udo Bölts (GER) Team Telekom + 25.56 15. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Flag_of_Italy.svg/22px-Flag_of_Italy.svg.png Alberto Elli (ITA) MG Maglificio-Technogym + 26.18 16. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Flag_of_Spain.svg/22px-Flag_of_Spain.svg.png Manuel Fernandez-Gines (ESP) Mapei + 26.28 17. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Flag_of_Italy.svg/22px-Flag_of_Italy.svg.png Leonardo Piepoli (ITA) Refin + 27.36 18. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Flag_of_France.svg/22px-Flag_of_France.svg.png Laurent Brochard (FRA) Festina + 32.11 19. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Flag_of_Italy.svg/22px-Flag_of_Italy.svg.png Michele Bartoli (ITA) MG Maglificio-Technogym + 37.18 20. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Flag_of_Russia.svg/22px-Flag_of_Russia.svg.png Eugeni Berzin (RUS) Gewiss + 38.00

http://www.velonews.com/article/74053/an-essay-by-1984-olympic-gold-medalist-alexi-grewal

Good article from Alexi Grewal on the subject. I read it as saying they were all on something, whether it’s ephedrine, amphetamines, steroids, or whatever else. I still have a hard time believing that any DS wouldn’t be aware of where his riders are at all times and what they’re doing.

If he didn’t dope (and there’s no evidence that I know of to prove otherwise), his achievements are even more impressive given the time.

can you connect the dots for me? are you saying because he was beaten by dopers, he didn’t dope?

read, “from lance to landis”.

about indurain doping, the guy is a giant. and yet he became an amazing rider in the mountains. must’ve been god helping him …

not.

Does Levi have an old bust?
Yeah, there was a reference in a thread on here a little while ago, one of his early early races.

Ah, here it is

"i don't think levi has a spot on him"  

You would be mistaken, and pretty badly.

Levi was stripped of the US Elite National Criterium championship title in 1996 for a positive drug test following the event.
It’s in the thread titled “Slipstream in Le Tour”

John

Does Levi have an old bust?
Yeah, there was a reference in a thread on here a little while ago, one of his early early races.

John
A reference in a thread on Slowtwitch…that must make it true.