not counting qualifiers that ended in a death march, and with respect to age groups. Probably hard to figure out, but maybe someone knows.
Who cares?
I think that is a pretty good question really…there are WAY to many variables though.
Of course there were. If a decent triathlete in the 30-34 age group gets a lottery slot, there’s a good chance he’s going to be a qualifier. I know of one guy who went in the low 11 hours. He didn’t qualify.
patd
I saw at least one low 11hr finisher come across and be annouced as “Mr “X” you’re are an ironman, that was Mr. “X”'s first ironman”
I’d still be interested in seeing the breakdown.
~Matt
Of course there were. Just by virute that people DNF. People like Deboom, Lessing, Stadler. Since they didn’t finish, I am sure there was at least one lottery winner who did finish, thus beating a qualifier
you didnt read my post, it said not counting those that ended in a death march. that includes DNF’s
Of course there were. Not all lottery winners are slow.
I saw at least one low 11hr finisher come across and be annouced as “Mr “X” you’re are an ironman, that was Mr. “X”'s first ironman”
Maybe Mr. X qualified at a 1/2???
Obviously, many lottery folks are not as committed athletes as qualifiers. But certainly many “near qualifiers” enter the lotter, and many qualifiers do to, just to cover their bases. I have seen several top athletes “get in” through lottery in Feb., taking the risk of missing it at one of the few qualifying races later in the year.
But I DON’T think you should NOT count death marches. Kona is a unique race. It generally has a much higher blow up rate than other events. Many first-time qualifiers, who are fine athletes, go there thinking that they are going to “race the big show” and end up over-baking themselves. Does a 4 hour marathon count as a death march for a 35 year old? Bad strategy is just as big an athletic shortfall as not training as much as another or not having the athletic genes. Sports is a lot about the head, and if a lottery person beats a qualifier on the race course, he beats him. If an athlete blows up, he loses in the race.
Good Point and a great post.
To the original poster, Indeed, who cares.
One persons’s blow-up could be another persons huge PB! Look at Heather Fuhr this year. 10:00 is a blow-up for her. When I went to IMH in 1993 I blew up and finished in 9:40( I had been in 9:00 flat pace until deep in the run). It’s all relative.
Fleck
Obviously, many lottery folks are not as committed athletes as qualifiers.
That has to be one of the most elitist remarks I’ve ever read on this forum. Just because someone is slower doesn’t mean they aren’t working hard - in fact they may be working harder than someone who is faster.
"To the original poster, Indeed, who cares. "
Well, I care as there are always 100 threads debating if lottery winners are worthy of Kona. So why not see if any of those deemed “unworthy” actually beat any of the “worthy”.
I think you read my post wrong. I meant no slur on others.
When I wrote “not as committed athletes” I meant the very “valid excuse” that some people actually do have lives outside triathlon…you know, like families and jobs and those fine things to which they are committed to instead being a gym rat. I do not think there is anything at all wrong with being a balanced person who has other commitments and doesn’t train as much and going to Kona via the lottery. Hey, my own wife is hoping to be one!
I agree with you that the WTC sets up this ambiguity itself by calling the IMH event a “world championship” and then having people on the starting line who’s names they pulled from a hat! I don’t agree with that in the absolute sense, but I respect it, because it’s a private business and they can do whatever they want. Obviously, they have been hugely successful in promoting the IMH event, despite the world wide proliferation of triathlon evenst and other liecensed IM events, Ironman Hawaii still seesm to be the go-to-holy-grail of the sport!
The bottom line is the from the front to the back of the pack, from the very fit to the not so fit, from the people that have the race of their lives to the people who have PW’s (Personal Worsts), everyone works their butt off and digs deep to get to that finishline.
Fleck
With regard to one being announced as a first time Ironman, only Hawaii Ironman counts there. So, if you’ve done 20 others and then race in Kona, you are announced as a first time Ironman.
Lots of variables and getting in by lottery does not mean one is slow.
Yes - the 40-44 women’s winner was in on the lottery and won with a 10:12. She also subsequently qualified in a 1/2 and I can’t remember if she said whether she kept the lottery slot or the qualifier slot. Does not really matter.
I can’t speak to that for this year, but a couple of years ago, Cheri Gruenfeld got a Lottery spot. I seem to recall that she won her age group that year, or if not, was very close, and is a multi-time age-group winner and record holder.
In 2002, we went over to support a friend, and worked the finish line as “catchers”. We “caught” one guy coming in at just over 10 hours ~10:03", if memory serves, he was a Lottery entry, and in the 40-44 age group. I suspect he beat a lot of “qualifiers”, I know he beat my “qualifer” friend, who was in the same age group, is a perennial qualifer and genuine tri-stud.
Lucky Loki McMichael was a seven-time Lottery pick (oh yeah, it’s random), and routinely ended up in the middle of her age group, so there’s yet another example.
I personally had a bad day in 2001 (yeah it was a death march on the marathon, after being ‘on the floor’ in those winds out near Hawi), and limped in a VERY late… I’m sure a lottery pick or two beat me, but I was well aware of some of the other folks in my age group that even with the death march, I “bested”.
I’d imagine it happens fairly often, much more than you’d think. For me, if you’re not looking at a podium spot, it’s really just you and the clock/course on the day anyway. How someone got there or does is irrelevant. Stow the ego that tells you otherwise, and worry about your own effort.
I have a buddy who went 9:50 in Florida two years ago and did not qualify. So there are insanely qualified people out there but just a few slots. It’s not like Boston where every schmoe who can get under time can go. This particular guy trains meticulously and is tough as a boot, and I have no doubt he would have raced very competitively if he had lotteried in. It’s like the freshman class at an Ivy League school. The difference between the best and the worst is so small you can hardle distinguish it.
One of me training buddies went 10:32 in Kona. He was a lottery winner.