This is fascinating. Admittedly, it is for pedal-assist e-bikes right now, but all tech starts somewhere.
Electronic Di2 shifting goes a step more high-tech by automatically picking the ideal gear based on cadence and speed, and shifting on its own. That means no worrying about ever shifting, yet still getting the full gear range, something that will be excellent for new e-cyclists or say for people using Steps on things like cargo bikes. Alternatively, riders have the option to take back control via the standard handlebar shift switch for manual gear shifts.
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The update also adds a self-learning advantage with the ability to improve over time based on each rider’s style and cadence preferences. Over time it is said to adjust the RPM it shifts at, based on how you have been riding previously
I’ll happily keep my shifting, but I could see this eventually moving over to bikes which don’t have racing application. Your commuter/hybrid/sit-up bike or whatever. Most people don’t want to change gears in their car, and given the option at a reasonable price I think they’d give it up while cycling. At which point the tech will be normalised and there will be tri-appropriate groupsets, and something else for the simplicity and tradition / tech and advancement conversation to rage over.
Cool tech, but not sure this will ever catch on. It makes sense in a car, because manual shifting in certain conditions such as stop-start traffic or doing a hill start can be a real pain, and good clutch control is also a skill that takes time to learn. Cars are also already jammed full of tech, so adding a bit more in doesn’t make too much difference. In other words, for anybody who just sees their car as a mode of transport (as opposed to people who enjoy driving for the sake of it and like being in control of the gears), automatic shifting is a big step up over manual shifting, and one that doesn’t really come at any cost.
Automatic bike shifting is different. It’s an expensive answer (both in terms of $$$ and complexity) to a problem that doesn’t really exist. Bike riders like being in control of the gears because it’s their legs doing the work, not an engine. And learning to operate gears is very simple.
It makes sense in a car, because manual shifting in certain conditions such as stop-start traffic or doing a hill start can be a real pain, and good clutch control is also a skill that takes time to learn.
Except that all of these things are true of bikes. We’ve learned them, but I’m not sure that my sister (or the average bike user) has.
I’m also reasonably certain that there are triathletes who haven’t learned to apply power through appropriate gear ratios in a consistent way. They’re the ones you pass coming out of a turnaround.
Sounds very nice … I will stand in line to buy the model for racing bikes when available … but will also require the wireless features of eTap.
There will probably be some resistance to automatic transmissions at first … for example as in the resistance to click shifting but as we know ‘Resistance Is Futile’.
Ironman Wisconsin 29 Oct 2015 DI2 **2,123 shifts ** … shifting is so ingrained that I would never have guessed that we have suffer endemic shift diarrhea.
Also, though I may be swimming upstream against a cultural bias, I feel no need to ‘shift for myself’.
It’s not just cultural. But situational. In triathlon or a flat TT I could see it being perfectly fine.
But until there’s a road-racing version that can listen for the ominous “ka-chunk, ka-chunk” 10 riders back and then conclude that in about 8 seconds some dude is going to be flying by at 1000W and 32 MPH and instantly up shift two clicks so you can try to have a chance of countering the move…
The version in the article just uses speed and cadence. I think power or torque could be added. E.f. if torque instantly goes up by a factor of 20, then the thing could shift from the “TT” profile to the “oh-shit-attack” profile.
I think many of us speak from our own experience. We here on ST are mostly racers of various skill and ability. However, if you look at all bikes sold, racing bikes (including tri) makes up a small percentage. There are a ton of bikes out there that aren’t intended to go fast. The owners often want to push the pedals, go forward, view the scenery and NOT sweat.
Most people don’t give a rats a$$ about shifting, and just want to ride their bikes.
In the past, I’ve taught intro bike maintenance courses to a wide range of people. I’ve also taught a number of adults that didn’t learn as kids, to ride bikes. In my time dealing with a couple hundred people, only 2-3 cared about shifting gears. Most, simply didn’t care. Even some quite good trigeeks didn’t want to know, but rather, just used the STI levers to be harder or easier. As a mechanical engineer and lover of gear related things, I would almost cry when I’d hear that.
Without being sexist, women in particular don’t care about gears. Most women glaze over within about 20 seconds of explaining bicycle gears. I think that there is a market for auto changing gears on bicycles. I also think it’s a much larger market than we’d initially suspect. If bikes simply came with auto changing, they would sell. Much like disc brakes are no longer an ‘upgrade’ on many entry level bikes, I think auto shifting on certain market segment bikes would sell too.
I recall a number of years ago, the local equivalent of K-Mart was selling auto changing bikes. Weights on the rear wheel would get flung closer to the rim at higher speed and that somehow caused the gears to change. The only option was to adjust the pedal RPM that equated to a given gear. One simply chose ones preferred cadence and the gears changed automatically to suit. Those bikes were selling for under $500 (USD) so whatever technology is used, it appears that it can be done pretty cheaply.
I agree with your comments about pre- shifting. In fact, your comments are not valid just for cycling, but also for cars.
In an auto car, when you enter a corner, the car has no idea what you’re doing. Only mid corner when you apply throttle does it see and change and then reacts by changing down, for more power. In a manual car, you downshift as you’re braking, in anticipation of the power required when exiting the corner. Manual transmissions in cars and bikes, with the operator, are pro-active. Auto transmissions, cars or bikes are RE-active.
Personally, I hate automatic shifting. I’ve never owned an automatic equipped car. After living in the snow for years, I learned that being able to choose the torque at the wheels was a huuuuuuge advantage. Spirited driving, which I still do at age 55, is also a time when choosing power and torque with a manual transmission is an advantage.
For me, I’m still running mechanical shifting on all my bikes. So far, cost has kept Di2 out of my bike shed. I see Di2 as a bit like flappy paddle transmissions. People that want that can have it, and I see auto shifting as having a market too. For now at least, manual mechanical shifting is what I choose.
I cycle to work, and on a busy day I’ll pass a couple of hundred cyclists on my commute. The vast majority aren’t on flashy bikes, they’re on Dutch style bikes, hybrids, old mountain bikes, 3 speed racers, all sorts. The vast majority also seem to have at least enough of a grasp of gears that they’re going at a reasonable cadence for their speed and effort level, can get up hills and pull away from lights. Like I said, I don’t see a problem. Maybe they could be more efficient with an automatic shifting system, but if they’re not bothered enough to have worked out gears for themselves I don’t see them being bothered enough to pay for the feature.
Now if automatic shifting was a cheap, reliable, mechanical solution like you describe, maybe it would gain momentum. But a solution based on complex and expensive electronics as linked to by the OP just doesn’t sound like something that is going to have mass appeal.
OK … good idea … as you say … add torque sensing or add a manual override like many motorcar transmissions.
If most bikes sold have the automatic transmission with buttons to go to manual override mode whenever desired … then it would be ‘one size fits all’ to simplify inventory.
