I just bought a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine, which I’m planning on doing all my training on this winter. I’ve been doing some of my threshold workouts so far, and I’m having a really hard time hitting my watts on the thing. I know cooling is an issue and contributes to a decrease in power, but with 4 fans going its hard for me to believe this is the only reason why riding on the trainer is so much harder for me. Is it normal to experience such a dramatic drop in power on the trainer vs the road? Also, if power on the trainer increases with time as your body/muscles get used to it, will you experience any benefit when you go back to riding outdoors?
how dramatic of a drop?
The answer to all of the other questions is “it depends” 
About a 10% drop in power.
whats your powermeter? Did you zero it?
I did 90% of my training on a trainer last year.
I experienced a 10% drop in power the few times I was outside on my bike.
I was advised on this forum that the 10% drop was because of specificity.
I did notice the same and i was told that trainer is like a hill with constant elevation, or riding in a constant headwind.
No microrests whats so ever.
When riding outside there is always some micro-rests. Like headwind and hill elevation changes.
And when i ride outside my focus is not only on how much my legs hurts.
Funny i find i put more on the trainer - exactly because of breaks - downhills etc
.
Also, if power on the trainer increases with time as your body/muscles get used to it, will you experience any benefit when you go back to riding outdoors?
It sure will. You’ll be pleasantly surprised come spring when you get back outside. You should also see a fairly quick adaptation to the subtle characteristics of the trainer that are initially inhibiting your power output.
Hugh
I also see lower power on the trainer, not 10% lower though. That gap should close if you spend more time on the trainer.
This article does a good job summarizing factors that can contribute to the difference: http://alex-cycle.blogspot.ca/2009/01/turbocharged-training.html
I didn’t read the article yet… but I think it’s the lack of flywheel effect… similar to a constant headwind or uphill, probably explains it best. I know I’ve thought about increasing hte wegith of my flywheel significantly. Sometiems I wish they made a trainer specific wheel which was basically solid thermplastic (to keep it cheap) with removeable steel weights along the perimeter. Might be a better way to simulate forward momentum better.
I assume the specifity is resolved fairly quickly once you back out on the roads in the spring. I still try and get 1 long ride in on the weekends one way or another.
I did notice the same and i was told that trainer is like a hill with constant elevation, or riding in a constant headwind.
No microrests whats so ever.
When riding outside there is always some micro-rests. Like headwind and hill elevation changes.
And when i ride outside my focus is not only on how much my legs hurts.
There have been lots of threads on this topic, but this is the simplest and most logical explanation I’ve come across. I’ve never thought about micro-rest before, but it makes so much sense.
While the Trainer and Road are both cycling, I try to treat the two separately. What I mean is that I’ll do a test for each when starting out each season.
Usually, my power indoors is about 8-10% lower because of the factors stated above. I also find the same with my athletes.
To combat this I have my outdoor FTP
And my trainer FTP
Both of those are honestly just starting points for the training block ahead. If I’m altering my days between outside and on the trainer, my workouts will be more focused around % of FTP rather than specific watts.
The absolute best part of power though is that realistically it doesn’t matter whether your FTP is 100 or 300… it’s a starting point and a fantastic way to measure fitness gains.
I just bought a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine, which I’m planning on doing all my training on this winter. I’ve been doing some of my threshold workouts so far, and I’m having a really hard time hitting my watts on the thing. I know cooling is an issue and contributes to a decrease in power, but with 4 fans going its hard for me to believe this is the only reason why riding on the trainer is so much harder for me. Is it normal to experience such a dramatic drop in power on the trainer vs the road? Also, if power on the trainer increases with time as your body/muscles get used to it, will you experience any benefit when you go back to riding outdoors?
I think that doing threshold work and above on the trainer is counter productive in most cases. It’s just too mind numbingly hard to dig that deep on the trainer. I NEVER do threshold on the trainer. It’s going to be a long winter and I’d rather do good solid workouts every day than burn myself out trying to do great workouts.
Save the really nasty stuff for when you can get outside.
I just bought a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine, which I’m planning on doing all my training on this winter. I’ve been doing some of my threshold workouts so far, and I’m having a really hard time hitting my watts on the thing. I know cooling is an issue and contributes to a decrease in power, but with 4 fans going its hard for me to believe this is the only reason why riding on the trainer is so much harder for me. Is it normal to experience such a dramatic drop in power on the trainer vs the road? Also, if power on the trainer increases with time as your body/muscles get used to it, will you experience any benefit when you go back to riding outdoors?
I think that doing threshold work and above on the trainer is counter productive in most cases. It’s just too mind numbingly hard to dig that deep on the trainer. I NEVER do threshold on the trainer. It’s going to be a long winter and I’d rather do good solid workouts every day than burn myself out trying to do great workouts.
Save the really nasty stuff for when you can get outside.
What do you do instead? Tempo rides in Zone 3? I’m thinking that that will be my bread and butter. I do agree, It’s mentally a hell of a lot harder to hold a thershold effort for more tha na few minutes indoors. It’s hard enough outdoors. I’m not sure why, but running at threshold is a lot easier than cycling there.
What do you do instead? Tempo rides in Zone 3? I’m thinking that that will be my bread and butter. I do agree, It’s mentally a hell of a lot harder to hold a thershold effort for more tha na few minutes indoors. It’s hard enough outdoors. I’m not sure why, but running at threshold is a lot easier than cycling there.
Winter: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=4193285#4193285
Outdoor season: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=4196846#4196846
I didn’t read the article yet… but I think it’s the lack of flywheel effect… similar to a constant headwind or uphill, probably explains it best. I know I’ve thought about increasing hte wegith of my flywheel significantly. Sometiems I wish they made a trainer specific wheel which was basically solid thermplastic (to keep it cheap) with removeable steel weights along the perimeter. Might be a better way to simulate forward momentum better.
I assume the specifity is resolved fairly quickly once you back out on the roads in the spring. I still try and get 1 long ride in on the weekends one way or another.
Yes, the bike/rider system has a lot more inertia when riding outside than on the trainer. Larger trainer flywheel = more inertia. I think the main idea is that this helps minimize micro-accelerations that occur due to “dead spots” in your pedal stroke. Some DIY types have rigged up pretty awesome setups:
http://i41.tinypic.com/i2q1pu.jpg
http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=25873
Then again, I would be wary about homemade flywheels. It isn’t pretty when flywheels go wrong, e.g.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NYZVLNOXvs
http://www.chem.purdue.edu/chemsafety/newsandstories/centrifugedamages.htm
I also remember slide a physics prof showed where the bearings seized in a massive centrifuge and it literally blew the side off the lab!
I didn’t read the article yet… but I think it’s the lack of flywheel effect… similar to a constant headwind or uphill, probably explains it best. I know I’ve thought about increasing hte wegith of my flywheel significantly. Sometiems I wish they made a trainer specific wheel which was basically solid thermplastic (to keep it cheap) with removeable steel weights along the perimeter. Might be a better way to simulate forward momentum better.
I assume the specifity is resolved fairly quickly once you back out on the roads in the spring. I still try and get 1 long ride in on the weekends one way or another.
Yes, the bike/rider system has a lot more inertia when riding outside than on the trainer. Larger trainer flywheel = more inertia. I think the main idea is that this helps minimize micro-accelerations that occur due to “dead spots” in your pedal stroke. Some DIY types have rigged up pretty awesome setups:
http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/....php?showtopic=25873
Then again, I would be wary about homemade flywheels. It isn’t pretty when flywheels go wrong, e.g.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NYZVLNOXvs
http://www.chem.purdue.edu/...entrifugedamages.htm
I also remember slide a physics prof showed where the bearings seized in a massive centrifuge and it literally blew the side off the lab!
That is AWESOME!!! It that a Nexus internal gear hub in the middle. The vanes are cool. So it’s a wind trainer. I hope that front wheel is balanced, althoug looking at hte gearing I think it’s RPM is fairly slow.
What do you do instead? Tempo rides in Zone 3? I’m thinking that that will be my bread and butter. I do agree, It’s mentally a hell of a lot harder to hold a thershold effort for more tha na few minutes indoors. It’s hard enough outdoors. I’m not sure why, but running at threshold is a lot easier than cycling there.
Winter: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...post=4193285#4193285
Outdoor season: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...post=4196846#4196846]
Thanks.
10% loss is about right, don’t trip on it. Sweet spot is your friend.
Sort of insane with no shield over that flywheel. Could you imagine getting an arm or leg caught in there?