hi
we got a sweat test done by a precision hydration fellow
one of his recomendations was to “decouple” our carbs from the fluid/electrolyte
we have used the multi hour bottle for many years (90 grm cabs and 1000mg sodium per hr ) into one aero bottle and then just take water from aid stations
so just need 2 bottles on bike
this has work very well for 30 odd races (exept kona)
this is and has worked well in the past excpet at kona where my partner has allways got off the bike cooked from not drinking enough (4 times)
hence why we are trying to fix this isuue with her
personally i think shes just not vigulate enough about drinking at kona as when we race at home its never that hot so she gets away with drinking “casually”
so if we do the decoupling we will have to add a gel bottle holder on the top tube for her carbs bars
a 750ml aero bottle on down tube
a 1 lt bottle behind the saddle
1lt bottle between the bars all for her fluid and electrolyte
this will get her to 90k
then pick up all 4 of these at special needs to get her home again
total of 5.5lts for a 6 hr ride
540 gr carb , and 6000ml of sodium
positives with this plan is that she knows how much she is drinking and how much she needs to drink to get through the bike
which i think is actually a great move
negitives are
its not as simple as we have done in the past
she is carrying more weight (but only about 1kg, and the bulk of her fluid will be gone on the climb up to hawi where the special needs are )
carrying more bottles
and the biggy for me is that we are relying on her extra bottles to be there at special needs which isnt allways the case
and of course the time it takes to get the spec needs etc etc
so has anyone done the decoupling idea and found it to be a positive??
thanks
Im not entirely decoupled as I run a high-carb drink (so some fluids) but the set up you describe is not too far off from what I do for an Ironman
My Setup:
1L carb drink bta (180g)
Also BTA a kids size bike bottle that I use with high-carb gels (240g)
I normally like to have a few torq bars in my bento as I like some solids
The above gets me to around 110g/ hour on the bike (I normally ride in the 4:45 range)
Then, behind the saddle, I just run two electrolyte bottles that I will swap out when they are empty for either more electrolytes or water, depending on my needs.
Even in Kona have never had to rely on my bike special needs bag - I typically only plan on using it if I drop a major portion of my nutrition, like that gel bottle
thanks @Tri78910
yeah the special needs is a worry as last time she raced kona they couldnt find her stuff and she cracked the sads
so since then we now do a 6hr bottle , but if we de couple , which i think is good as she will know how much she HAS to drink then we gotta go back to SN
What about not necessarily decoupling the sodium from the carbs, but instead preparing the right solution per hour? I did 3x750ml (3 hours, 1 bottle per hour), stopped at special needs (Garmin shows it took me less than a minute from slowing to being back up to speed, including chamois butter application) to grab 3 more (deliciously frozen) bottles. All I had to worry about was drinking my bottle per hour, with a few extra sips of cold water at aid stations (you are already grabbing one for cooling, likely) to get me up closer to 1L per hour of H20.
Worked like a charm, it’s a bit more weight, but the alternative (under fueling/under hydrating) will cost you way more time on the back half of the marathon, IMO! And not having to do the math on the go is a huge mental burden removed!
I finally have nailed really good nutrition at full (though granted 4th full IM and cool/rainy day in LP), managed about 120g/hr on the bike and 100g/hr on the run. Rode really well, ran decently not quite to my potential but the first time I haven’t walked and was actually running decently fast the last couple miles, and didn’t feel liek complete death at the end.
My setup is 2 large bottles behind the saddle (I run a Wove saddle to double stacked, which unscientifically was faster than just one bottle BTS), both with carbs, caffeine, and sodium, one bottle in front with carbs/sodium/caffeine, and one cage with plain water that I replace as needed. Each bottle I had ~200g carbs (2 bottles 1:1 glucose/fructose for the bulk of the bike, 1 bottle 1:0.75 glucose/fructose for faster absorption at the beginning), 500-1000mg sodium (massive fluid losses, very low sodium concentration), 50mg caffeine. No stopping at special needs.
In a hot race, I would aim to get a new plain bottle at each aid station, and down it before getting to the next one and slide it right into the top cage BTA. This would be my variable for how hot it is, with the rain at LP I took a full bottle down every2-3 aid stations. With the number of aid stations, I think she should eb good on fluid if she drinks one full bottle of water between aid stations and gets carbs/sodium from the other bottles on her bike. If needed, you can chuck the carb bottles as you finish them and get extra water.
Which is kinda funny because their Carb & Electrolyte drink is pretty much perfect (at least for me). 6 scoops in a 1 liter bottle gives me 90g carbs and 1,500mg of electrolytes. Another PF30 gel and that’s 120g for the hour and plenty of fluid/electrolytes.
It’s beneficial for them to sell the carbs and electrolytes separately because they make more money that way, but I also see how it’s more practical and easier to tailor your nutrition and hydration independently as the weather (and thus your sweat rate) changes.
And to be fair to PF&H, that’s the only product they sell with the carbs and electrolytes combined.
I pretty much always run a fully decoupled approach for longer races (70.3+). I have a gel bottle BTS with 15oz of gel (300kcal/hr * 5hrs), a BTA cage for water, and salt tabs in my trisuit pocket.
For hotter races I may run a 2nd BTS bottle setup for a spare water (backup, and for spraying myself), and for 70.3 I often ditch the gel bottle for a 7oz flask in my trisuit (well these days the bottle is still there for aero).
Special needs has a gel flask and salt tablets (and a CO2 and tube) that I’ll only stop for if I’ve lost/launched something.
I really like having plain water to cool myself and to rinse my mouth out, and as conditions change my need for nutrition:hydration varies. There are times in a race where a premixed concoction just doesn’t go down well and it’s good to be able to adjust.
2 L high-carb mix w/ 120-150g carbs, 1000mg sodium. 1 BTA, 1 BTS, drink 1 per hour
Dr. Harrison’s concentrated mix w/ 300 g carbs in aero bottle on downtube (for second half of the ride) while grabbing Mortal at aid stations for sodium and fluids.
4-5 Carbs gels or SIS Beta gels in top tube bento
If /whenProfile does come out with a larger top-tube gel bottle, I’ll move to that instead of the downtube bottle.
Kind of a mixed strategy with decoupling for the second half.