Do not know his name but sending love and prayers to his family.
Another swim tragedy. Do not know if they had a warm up there. They let us warm up at Oceanside.
No warm up. Just had to jump off the dock into the water, which was 70* so not that cold. But I could see how someone could have trouble with that kind of start. A bit of a shock to the system.
I’ve done Galveston 5x and/or spectated every year until 2019. There was never a swim warmup. The swim start isn’t really designed for this as they have swimmers jump off a large dock a couple of minutes prior to their start. Athletes line up along the water while they wait but they don’t let you in the water there. Also, from my recollection, that shallow water is covered in oyster shells so getting in there is not very feet friendly.
I saw a guy walk down the rocks and so a little swim along the walkway before the race and when he got out he had a huge gash on his hand. I can’t envision an easy practice swim at the venue.
I saw a guy walk down the rocks and so a little swim along the walkway before the race and when he got out he had a huge gash on his hand. I can’t envision an easy practice swim at the venue.
There were always a few people that thought rules didn’t apply to them and waded into the water near the dock and came out bleeding.
I raced yesterday and it’s crazy to think one of us on that dock didn’t make it to the bike or anything further. Incredibly sad to even contemplate.
No swim warm up.
Salt water, Bay swim, 70degF. No swells. Felt some waves about halfway through but otherwise it felt like a lake.
GALVESTON, Texas – An athlete who needed medical attention during the swim portion of the Ironman 70.3 Texas triathlon has died, according to the event organizers. The athlete was identified as 46-year-old Daniel Winkler of Arlington, Massachusetts, according to the medical examiner’s office.
Peter Davis, chief of the Galveston Island Beach Patrol, in a phone interview Monday confirmed that Daniel Winkler, 46, of Arlington, was pronounced dead at an area hospital about an hour after he was pulled from the water during the swim portion of the Ironman, which includes swimming, running, and cycling courses.
It seems like people are equating: no warm up > caused her death.
Perhaps we can stop playing doctor especially when science does not back that up (esp with water temps @ 70)
No warm up. Just had to jump off the dock into the water, which was 70* so not that cold. But I could see how someone could have trouble with that kind of start. A bit of a shock to the system.
It this ITU style start where you can dive in? Or have to go feet first and wade out to a start buoy? Would love to have an ITU start dive pontoon
It seems like people are equating: no warm up > caused her death.
Perhaps we can stop playing doctor especially when science does not back that up (esp with water temps @ 70)
No sir def not trying to equate that and totally agree that’s the least of the reasons for this occurring. Just answering a question from above and giving first hand report of the conditions.
No warm up. Just had to jump off the dock into the water, which was 70* so not that cold. But I could see how someone could have trouble with that kind of start. A bit of a shock to the system.
It this ITU style start where you can dive in? Or have to go feet first and wade out to a start buoy? Would love to have an ITU start dive pontoon
Feet first. It’s actually quite a drop from the dock to the water, maybe 3-4 feet.
Just to be clear, the 2 news articles I linked in my previous post indicate the athlete was Daniel Winkler, a man, not a woman.
My wife saw the jet ski lifeguard pull him from the swim to the shore where the medics started doing chest compressions. My mother saw the medics load him into the ambulance and leave Moody Gardens.
As for the swim and swim start… you line up 4 across on the edge of the concrete dock, cross the timing mat and jump feet first approximately 4 feet down to the water surface, they timed it 4 jump in every 5 seconds. No diving, no running start, just jump straight down and start swimming out to turn 1. The water was quite nice, very calm, no current, and right at 70 degrees. Visibility was 100%, no clouds, no fog, sun began to rise just at 6:45a. For this race, this was one of if not the best swim conditions I have seen there.
No warm up. Just had to jump off the dock into the water, which was 70* so not that cold. But I could see how someone could have trouble with that kind of start. A bit of a shock to the system.
It this ITU style start where you can dive in? Or have to go feet first and wade out to a start buoy? Would love to have an ITU start dive pontoon
Feet first. It’s actually quite a drop from the dock to the water, maybe 3-4 feet.
just out of curiosity does anyone know where he had seeded himself in the swim timing? before i jumped in i did see two separate people being brought out of the water but both looked to be in decent shape, and i did see a jet ski pulling a gurney at one point but i didnt see anyone on it that i could tell.
this is horrible… i cant imagine this happening when you’re out there to have fun and enjoy your sport. what on earth happened to him?
The medical literature on swim related deaths in ironman is mixed. Some talk of SIPE. I feel strongly that the wetsuits are in general designed or waify triathletes and for the most of us they are on the tight side. Most delay zipping up until just before the race start. I feel strongly about being totally zipped for 30 plus minutes before. Think of it as a large compression suit or device. This cause peripheral compression of extremities causing blood to leave your extremities and rush to your heart. When this happens in general your heart releases ANF to pee of the volume. This is the reason when you jump into water often you feel the urge to pee. Too much load can overwhelm the heart. Then put on top of that suddenly swimming vigorously. This is a poor set up for your heart and lungs to perform well. The swim comes first presumably because they are worried about people being fatigued in the water? It would be interesting to see if this problem went away if the swim was later when you are dehydrated from navigating through a portion of the race. I have done more than a dozen ironman races and I am a doctor. This is not medical advice but what i consider a common sense analysis. Always sad to hear of someone passing this way. The races are supposed to be a celebration of life.
It seems like people are equating: no warm up > caused her death.
Perhaps we can stop playing doctor especially when science does not back that up (esp with water temps @ 70)
Please provide the links that back up your statement. There have been numerous studies that were inconclusive on the specific cause of sudden cardiac death during the swim, but the recommendations from these studies included a pre-race swim.
The medical literature on swim related deaths in ironman is mixed. Some talk of SIPE. I feel strongly that the wetsuits are in general designed or waify triathletes and for the most of us they are on the tight side. Most delay zipping up until just before the race start. I feel strongly about being totally zipped for 30 plus minutes before. Think of it as a large compression suit or device. This cause peripheral compression of extremities causing blood to leave your extremities and rush to your heart. When this happens in general your heart releases ANF to pee of the volume. This is the reason when you jump into water often you feel the urge to pee. Too much load can overwhelm the heart. Then put on top of that suddenly swimming vigorously. This is a poor set up for your heart and lungs to perform well. The swim comes first presumably because they are worried about people being fatigued in the water? It would be interesting to see if this problem went away if the swim was later when you are dehydrated from navigating through a portion of the race. I have done more than a dozen ironman races and I am a doctor. This is not medical advice but what i consider a common sense analysis. Always sad to hear of someone passing this way. The races are supposed to be a celebration of life.
It would be ironic indeed if tight wetsuits were the primary cause of these heart attacks, since many triathletes think of their wettie as a security blanket for the swim. Have you seen any data on numbers of swim deaths in non-wetsuit swims vs wettie-legal swims???
Didn’t the study by Drs. Creswell and Harris a few years ago determine no statistical difference between wetsuit vs non-wetsuit deaths? I think Dr. Creswell came here to discuss as well.
It seems like people are equating: no warm up > caused her death.
Perhaps we can stop playing doctor especially when science does not back that up (esp with water temps @ 70)
Please provide the links that back up your statement. There have been numerous studies that were inconclusive on the specific cause of sudden cardiac death during the swim, but the recommendations from these studies included a pre-race swim.
Presumably it’s the heart that needs to be “warmed-up” not swim specific muscles. Maybe run in place, jumping jacks?
Dr. Creswell’s blog/article about triathlon fatalities
http://www.athletesheart.org/...a-scientific-report/
The slowtwitch thread from 5 yrs ago w Dr. Creswell’s comments and ‘Up to Date’ info on sudden death in sports
https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...riathlon_P6427784-2/
Another triathlon article with stats
http://tripothesis.com/...hletes-be-concerned/
ST thread with Dan’s comments and links to prior posts regarding things to be done to prevent swim deaths
https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...can_do%3F__P6948087/
What endurance athletes need to know about their heart health
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/General_Physiology/What_Endurance_Athletes_Need_to_Know_About_Heart_Health_7911.html
It seems like people are equating: no warm up > caused her death.
Perhaps we can stop playing doctor especially when science does not back that up (esp with water temps @ 70)
Can you cite the studies that back up that lack of warmup or no warmup differentiates the reaction of athletes in the water at a full intensity start? I don’t think it is possible to design a controlled study that actually tests if people die more often or not with or without a warmup. If you’re going to make wide ranging claims, at least back them up.
Common sense suggests the higher likelihood of distress of some kind going from rest to full speed in a short duration. Whether people die or not is another story, however, after this sport for 40 something years, practitioners of the sport on the ground (or shall we say water) can tell you they tend to have a calmer start when they have warmed up.
As for Galveston itself, the two times that I did it, we jumped off dock and swam to start and at least had 3 minutes of motion in the water between waves. Maybe not a long warmup, but still we had some time to get going.