Death and dying - neat and orderly?

The Coffee Shop
1

So, in the past month a couple of deaths have hit close to home.

  1. Work friend diagnosed w/stomach cancer and 6 weeks later - gone. The two weeks from diagnosis was a scramble for second opinions and to start some treatment as well as having the next 4 weeks having family try to deal with the inevitable situation and aftermath. He was pretty private about this at work, and not a lot of people knew.

  2. Extended family member diagnosed with stage-4 lung cancer. He held up and on to make a family trip to MD for a last get together and it was a rapid downhill to death shortly thereafter. Wife (no kids) is distraught as he truly lived his life for her, and she is at a loss about going forward.

While we’re doing what we can to help on both of those fronts, I can’t help thinking that both of these families had some stress about “getting affairs in order”, and not wanting to have that be their priority during last days.

So, if the grim reaper beckons for me, I’d really prefer to not have to worry about what and how I leave stuff behind. There must be a way to avoid worrying about that stuff at that point.

Is there a detailed checklist?

What happens to stuff not specified in a will? Hate to have folks go through years of probate court to distribute what may have been overlooked?

Easier to just set some things up as a bunch of joint accounts?

What do you military folks do when deployed and the risk of not coming back is real?

How have you thought about and what have you set up on your end for your families and loved ones?

2

I’d talk to an estate planner/attorney.

3

+1
.

4

We have a trust and will that describes what happens in every different scenario. I die, she dies, we both die, etc. Didn’t cost much. Covers pretty much everything.

I’m actually terrified right now because my wife is going in for a lung biopsy Monday for really suspicious lung scan and pneumonia-like condition that they can’t figure out. Dr. thinks the condition progressed way too fast to be a cancer, and there are other signs it’s some odd infection. And she’s decades younger than most lung cancer diagnoses. But it’s still terrifying. I can’t focus on anything except not acting scared in front of her.

5

We have a trust and will that describes what happens in every different scenario. I die, she dies, we both die, etc. Didn’t cost much. Covers pretty much everything.

I’m actually terrified right now because my wife is going in for a lung biopsy Monday for really suspicious lung scan and pneumonia-like condition that they can’t figure out. Dr. thinks the condition progressed way too fast to be a cancer, and there are other signs it’s some odd infection. And she’s decades younger than most lung cancer diagnoses. But it’s still terrifying. I can’t focus on anything except not acting scared in front of her.

Wifey and I need to look at our scenarios. Some of our individual accounts spell out beneficiaries etc, but we don’t have a single big picture view.

Good luck with your wife’s test. Hoping your news is good.

6

We have a trust and will that describes what happens in every different scenario. I die, she dies, we both die, etc. Didn’t cost much. Covers pretty much everything.

I’m actually terrified right now because my wife is going in for a lung biopsy Monday for really suspicious lung scan and pneumonia-like condition that they can’t figure out. Dr. thinks the condition progressed way too fast to be a cancer, and there are other signs it’s some odd infection. And she’s decades younger than most lung cancer diagnoses. But it’s still terrifying.** I can’t focus on anything except not acting scared in front of her**.

I was going to PM you but decided this was something that deserved to be talked about in public.

My wife has a chronic autoimmune disorder. It took years to get the right diagnosis. My biggest role during that time was to not show her how scared I was. And even though I wasn’t the one worried about dying, it was amazingly hard. You feel like you have no one to talk to.

Shortly after that one of my co-workers wives was diagnosed with breast cancer. And you could tell he was having a hard time. It was really difficult for him to grasp that it was ok for him to be struggling while having to put on a stoic face for his wife.

And now my sister’s husband is dying from ALS. And she is having a really hard time because she can’t show him how scared she is.

Don’t be afraid to find someone to talk to. Or to go on a long training ride and completely break down around mile 80. IM training was one of the things that really helped me. Breaking myself down completely physically really let the emotions come out. Of course balling your eyes out while you are on a long run might look a little funny to passersby.

You have to find an outlet for your emotions. Because you know you can’t do it in front of the person you are supporting.

7

S

Is there a detailed checklist?
A: Yes. All over the internet.

What happens to stuff not specified in a will? Hate to have folks go through years of probate court to distribute what may have been overlooked?
A: Sentimental items usually shared among spouse and children.

Easier to just set some things up as a bunch of joint accounts?
A: Ineffective unless you have “survivorship” designations.

What do you military folks do when deployed and the risk of not coming back is real?
A: They are instructed to write a letter to their family. They are encouraged to have Wills.

How have you thought about and what have you set up on your end for your families and loved ones?
A: Yes. Wills, trusts, document locators, funeral service instructions, cremation instructions, summaries of assets, Letter From the Heart for each of them.

8

So, if the grim reaper beckons for me, I’d really prefer to not have to worry about what and how I leave stuff behind. There must be a way to avoid worrying about that stuff at that point.

Is there a detailed checklist?

What happens to stuff not specified in a will? Hate to have folks go through years of probate court to distribute what may have been overlooked?

Easier to just set some things up as a bunch of joint accounts?

What do you military folks do when deployed and the risk of not coming back is real?

How have you thought about and what have you set up on your end for your families and loved ones?

Do you have a will? Its not an itemized list of all your possessions. You can call out items, but mostly its how the estate is divided up. We didn’t even list the kids so we dont need to update it every time we had one. It just said kids go here, estate is split equally among the children. (thats if we both go) otherwise it all goes to the remaining spouse.

It really doesn’t have to be that complex… well I guess if you have a shit ton of stuff or a bunch of people who think they should get a piece.

9

So, in the past month a couple of deaths have hit close to home.

  1. Work friend diagnosed w/stomach cancer and 6 weeks later - gone. The two weeks from diagnosis was a scramble for second opinions and to start some treatment as well as having the next 4 weeks having family try to deal with the inevitable situation and aftermath. He was pretty private about this at work, and not a lot of people knew.

  2. Extended family member diagnosed with stage-4 lung cancer. He held up and on to make a family trip to MD for a last get together and it was a rapid downhill to death shortly thereafter. Wife (no kids) is distraught as he truly lived his life for her, and she is at a loss about going forward.

While we’re doing what we can to help on both of those fronts, I can’t help thinking that both of these families had some stress about “getting affairs in order”, and not wanting to have that be their priority during last days.

So, if the grim reaper beckons for me, I’d really prefer to not have to worry about what and how I leave stuff behind. There must be a way to avoid worrying about that stuff at that point.

Is there a detailed checklist?

What happens to stuff not specified in a will? Hate to have folks go through years of probate court to distribute what may have been overlooked?

Easier to just set some things up as a bunch of joint accounts?

What do you military folks do when deployed and the risk of not coming back is real?

How have you thought about and what have you set up on your end for your families and loved ones?

FWIW, I am a CPA that specializes in financial planning, so I see lots of families go through this process and have seen countless examples of disputes after a death.

Others have mentioned utilizing a good estate planning attorney to draft the appropriate documents. This is important, regardless of net worth; the documents should be prepared and regularly reviewed.

In addition to fighting over $, I often see families argue over personal property/sentimental items. I currently have a family that is arguing over four of Dad’s bow ties and mom’s wedding ring. The four kids are late-60’s, all worth $10 million +, don’t have a great relationship but this argument is beyond what I expected. Deciding the distribution of your sentimental assets might stop an argument later.

I personally encourage my clients to meet with their children to explain their wishes:
we decided to leave most of our estate to charity because…our estate wasn’t divided evenly because…
The hard part about these family meetings is determining when is appropriate, how much of your financial picture do you share with your children, etc.

I have personally organized my financial situation in a way that I hope would be easier for my wife and kids. I have a notebook on my desk that contains a list of assets, where they are held, phone numbers, etc. Copies of investment statements, insurance policies, contact info for my legal and financial advisors. Wills, trusts, etc. Combinations to my safe and gun safe. Passwords to online banking accounts. It is my intention to keep everything in one place to simplify matters.

As part of my will/trust, I have an attachment that addresses my personal property, who gets what.

Good luck.

10

We have a trust and will that describes what happens in every different scenario. I die, she dies, we both die, etc. Didn’t cost much. Covers pretty much everything.

I’m actually terrified right now because my wife is going in for a lung biopsy Monday for really suspicious lung scan and pneumonia-like condition that they can’t figure out. Dr. thinks the condition progressed way too fast to be a cancer, and there are other signs it’s some odd infection. And she’s decades younger than most lung cancer diagnoses. But it’s still terrifying. I can’t focus on anything except not acting scared in front of her.

Wifey and I need to look at our scenarios. Some of our individual accounts spell out beneficiaries etc, but we don’t have a single big picture view.

Good luck with your wife’s test. Hoping your news is good.

If just you and a spouse, a simple will is pretty straight forward. Also you should have a medical power of attorney (or whatever its called) documents written up so your spouse can pull the plug if you want it pulled.

11

I have personally organized my financial situation in a way that I hope would be easier for my wife and kids. I have a notebook on my desk that contains a list of assets, where they are held, phone numbers, etc. Copies of investment statements, insurance policies, contact info for my legal and financial advisors. Wills, trusts, etc. Combinations to my safe and gun safe. Passwords to online banking accounts. It is my intention to keep everything in one place to simplify matters.

As part of my will/trust, I have an attachment that addresses my personal property, who gets what.

Good luck.

Untill you die in a house fire and that notebook burns up. Might want to store that one off site. or in a fire safe box.

12

My wife has a chronic autoimmune disorder.

Yeah mine too, and it’s what I’m hoping is the root cause here. She has MS and started a new immunosuppressant drug - so I’m hoping that it’s “just” a weird infection, sort of like what people with AIDS used to get. Except they’ve already ruled out a lot of those infections, which is why they’re going ahead with a biopsy.

All your other advice is good. Fortunately I have a pretty good community of friends. Unfortunately simultaneously dealing with my mom’s (armchair diagnosed) depression per my other thread on depression advice, and she’s no help at the moment.

13

I have personally organized my financial situation in a way that I hope would be easier for my wife and kids. I have a notebook on my desk that contains a list of assets, where they are held, phone numbers, etc. Copies of investment statements, insurance policies, contact info for my legal and financial advisors. Wills, trusts, etc. Combinations to my safe and gun safe. Passwords to online banking accounts. It is my intention to keep everything in one place to simplify matters.

As part of my will/trust, I have an attachment that addresses my personal property, who gets what.

Good luck.

Untill you die in a house fire and that notebook burns up. Might want to store that one off site. or in a fire safe box.

Yeah, you are right. I keep a duplicate at my office and I have a trusted colleague that knows it’s location. I’ve never fully trusted the fireproof factor of my safe. I’m not sure how it would perform in a fire.

14

I have personally organized my financial situation in a way that I hope would be easier for my wife and kids. I have a notebook on my desk that contains a list of assets, where they are held, phone numbers, etc. Copies of investment statements, insurance policies, contact info for my legal and financial advisors. Wills, trusts, etc. Combinations to my safe and gun safe. Passwords to online banking accounts. It is my intention to keep everything in one place to simplify matters.

As part of my will/trust, I have an attachment that addresses my personal property, who gets what.

Good luck.

Untill you die in a house fire and that notebook burns up. Might want to store that one off site. or in a fire safe box.

Yeah, you are right. I keep a duplicate at my office and I have a trusted colleague that knows it’s location. I’ve never fully trusted the fireproof factor of my safe. I’m not sure how it would perform in a fire.

It’s not just the fire you need to worry about, but the potential water as well.

15

We have a trust and will that describes what happens in every different scenario. I die, she dies, we both die, etc. Didn’t cost much. Covers pretty much everything.

I’m actually terrified right now because my wife is going in for a lung biopsy Monday for really suspicious lung scan and pneumonia-like condition that they can’t figure out. Dr. thinks the condition progressed way too fast to be a cancer, and there are other signs it’s some odd infection. And she’s decades younger than most lung cancer diagnoses. But it’s still terrifying. I can’t focus on anything except not acting scared in front of her.

Fuck, dude, I know we’ve never met but I feel like I kind of “know” you after years of interaction on this forum. I really hope this turns out to be nothing. Totally feel for you right now, I’d be terrified too.

16

i can speak only for me.

my decisions have place immense strain upon my wife, children, parents and brothers as i’ve spent my life as a professional Soldier–and after retirement as a contractor back doing basically the same thing for more money. I’m not talking some technical job (repairing helos, logistics, etc) safe on some FOB. Those are all extremely valuable in the bigger scheme of things but that’s not what i chose to do.

yes, i’ve thought about it. yes my wife and i have talked about it. For the longest time there was just a brief spasm in Panama, but since the towers fell in 2001 i’ve been at war continually. The main thing tho that worried me out there–the thing that caused me to lose sleep was the very great fear of somehow some way letting down the men and women around me. i was never really worried about the dying part so much as i was worried about letting people down by not having done something i should have done/foreseen/planned for. When we rolled it was really a great relief. You just put your body armor on, one last weapons and coms check and then you go out there and do it. It was actually a relief.

this was very selfish on my part. Placed great pain on my wife. i can never really repay her for what i’ve put her through these past 18 years.

i did this in service of my Country and more importantly so as not to let down those around me.

one tour in Iraq my wife suffered a stroke but never told me till i came home. Reason she gave me when i got back was she didn’t want to distract me while i was commanding Soldiers in active combat.

how fucked up is that?

i’ve seen all manner of death but i’ve never seen any neat and orderly death excepting one.

i resigned from one contracting job so i could help my brother help his daughter die. Brain cancer. They fought hard. Did everything. Didn’t work. Ended up doing in home hospice. When it got so bad she couldn’t be carried up to her bedroom anymore we set her up in the living room of the house she’d grown up in and stood shifts watching over her as she declined. Administering meds (mainly morphine) until she was finally gone. i guess that was about as clean and orderly as i’ve seen and i’ve seen a lot.

but it hurt the most

/r

17

Fuck, dude, I know we’ve never met but I feel like I kind of “know” you after years of interaction on this forum. I really hope this turns out to be nothing. Totally feel for you right now, I’d be terrified too.

Hey thanks a lot! It does help.

18

A friend’s father passed away recently, he kept a croak file (as he referred to it). He had everything planned out for his passing, even wrote his own obituary.

If you have any assets, a trust is infinitely better than a will, there is no need to run your stuff through probate court.

This might be helpful.

https://www.oktodie.com/preparation-checklists/3-resources/4-planning-your-death

19

… thanks for the link. Helpful to have the checklist form, in one place. We’ve got bits and pieces covered, but our setup hasn’t covered all bases.

20

i can speak only for me.

my decisions have place immense strain upon my wife, children, parents and brothers as i’ve spent my life as a professional Soldier-- . . .

Steve – thank you for your post on this. Massive appreciation for you and your peers that choose to put yourselves in harms way. And what that entails for and from your family in support of that. Much appreciated.