I’m racing a gravel grinder in a few months. There are some hard pack dirt roads, some paved roads, some rail trail and some singletrack.
I want to run file treads as having looked at the bikes of the top 10 dudes from years previous, that’s what they run.
I’m wondering about tubes. Will latex tubes in a set of high volume tires be an advantage? if so, any idea how much? Just want to see what people think before I splash out on $40 worth of tubes for a 2.5 hour race…
Thanks in advance, tire gurus!
In my opinion, yes latex tubes are better than butyl. It’s hard to say if its worth it for 1 race though.
Which tires are you going with?
Not much “grind” in a 2.5hr race. What race is it?
Vittoria xn pro’s
I will likely use the latex tubes a bit more, but am wondering if there’s anything I’m missing re: durability. It’s not somewhere where I’ll get thorns or goatheads or what not. I know they’re less susceptible to pinch flats, so other than $40 outlay, I wonder if there’s any downside. That, and I’d love to know that they’re faster (did the race last year on knobbies with butyl), just wondering how much faster
Paris to Ancaster. Gravel grinder is the best description I could come up with. It’s more of an off-road road type race? dirty road race? cyclocross bike MTB race?
If it’s dry, includes pavement, and not too technical, a nice set of file treads are a very good choice if they fit into your bike. I prefer the challenge or clement brands for a good cyclocross or gravel race tire but many good options exist.
Tubes? whatever, if you get tire choice/ tread pattern and pressure dialed, tubes are secondary as long as you have a spare atmo. Flats happen…
J
in response to my own question, I checked the google, I found this: http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/tubeless-latex-butyl-tubes
Jist of it is up to 5 watts per tire with latex over butyl for mtb tires. I assume cross tires might be a bit less…
Well, that is quite a benefit!
Latex makes a huge difference. At the same psi latex has lower rolling resistance. More important, though, latex makes both pinch flats and punctures less likely (as it’s seven times more stretchy than butyl), so you’re less likely to flat and you can run even lower psi, meaning still lower rolling resistance.
The one downside? User error on installation can be costly-- a blowout will destroy a tube beyond repair, and is almost always down to user error.
As far as the initial cost, I look at it this way: with cheap butyl tubes I’ve been tempted to replace rather than repair; not so with a $15-20 latex tube.
The only time I would recommend butyl is for commuting when daily inflation isn’t worth the bother. And then I’d recommend silly-thick butyl tubes that roll like mud.
I weigh 180lbs and race even rough gravel at 35-45 psi.
I use Challenge latex tubes for CX. Way nicer than butyl.
Always wanted to do P-A, but can’t justify the flight cost.
If tubeless is an option with your rims, I’d recommend that. I did d2r2 and a bunch of cross races last year tubeless without any issues. I weigh low/mid 160s during race season and race at around 28psi, though I’ve tried 22-25 without problems, just too chicken to try in a race.
I’ve tried latex tubes in a cyclocross tire and it was a huge mistake (at least the commonly available narrow latex tubes in 33-35mm wide tires). The tolerance for expansion in those things is not very high. There is always a weak spot that will just end up exploding. It only takes a few rides, YMMV. Surprisingly to me, this is also true of the narrow butyl tubes meant for road tires. Those last a bit longer but will still fail very early. You need to use width appropriate tubes for the tires you choose.
Latex tubes are a must. Get the Challenge one’s in the 30 to 35 mm width. I weigh 140lbs and run 24/26 psi for cross, would probably run 26/28 or 38/30 for a gravel grinder.
Also Ritchey Speedmax would be my choice for a tire. I run it for all dry cross races. It’s a good all around tire just in case the weather changes on you.
Paris to Ancaster. Gravel grinder is the best description I could come up with. It’s more of an off-road road type race? dirty road race? cyclocross bike MTB race?
Nice. I’ve wanted to do that race. Are they running 33c file treads or something like a 35c Clement USH?
Generally I’m a big fan of latex tubes, but gravel races/rides are the one time I think they’re a bad idea.
Latex tubes are faster, and they’re more puncture resistant both to snakebite style flats and to puncture type flats. What they aren’t good for, though, is tread and sidewall cuts. Which is what causes flats in gravel events, as I found out the hard way.
If you happen to get a cut in your tire - even a small one - the latex tube will find a way to squirt out the cut, and then blow out.
I’ve done a fair number of gravel races, and like many of the folks in the races I was doing, I had a bunch of flats. Until I figured out what was going on.
It just so happened that I ran out of latex tubes and was too lazy to patch one before a race, so I ran one butyl and one latex tube.
Go figure, I flatted the latex tube-equipped tire in the race.
After the race, I was checking my tires over, and on the the wheel/tire that didn’t flat, I observed cuts in the tire, with butyl tube visible in, but not protruding from, the cuts. Curious, I took the butyl tube out of the tire, re-inflated with a new latex tube, and - sure enough - when inflated, the latex tube popped right out the cut in the tire.
Mystery solved, no more latex tubes for gravel racing, and no more flats in the remaining gravel races I attended last season.
YMMV
PS - since you phrased this as a “Cyclocross question”: cross races generally aren’t conducted in the sharp gravel that many of the “gravel” events I’ve done are, so it’s not an issue there. When there are sharp pointy things on the courses, folks using high-zoot cross tubulars flat, and flat a lot. I still bring a set of clincher wheels to any races where I haven’t seen the course just in case it’s of the tire-eating variety.
in general, something with a bit of knob is good for that race, in my experience. If you are a very good bike handler and comfortable with file treads, then they can be an advantage, but for the most part you will be in a group on the road and the gaps will form on the muddy singletrack sections, so it’s nice to have some traction. I was third overall in that race one year on michelin muds that were kind of worn with regular tubes and 32 spoke wheels. Don’t overthink it.
Do bring a chain tool and stuff to fix your bike, you can get really cold out there if you break your bike. See you out there!
in general, something with a bit of knob is good for that race, in my experience. If you are a very good bike handler and comfortable with file treads, then they can be an advantage, but for the most part you will be in a group on the road and the gaps will form on the muddy singletrack sections, so it’s nice to have some traction. I was third overall in that race one year on michelin muds that were kind of worn with regular tubes and 32 spoke wheels. Don’t overthink it.
Do bring a chain tool and stuff to fix your bike, you can get really cold out there if you break your bike. See you out there!
I’ll be there this year for my first crack at an off road race. I have a set of Clement MXP clinchers that will have butyl tubes; curious if you have a recommendation on what tire pressure I should run. (a bit under 160 lbs). Thanks.
(One other thing, if starting in wave 2 is it worth it to go hard off the line to get towards the front of the pack?)
maybe 35 psi, you can lose contact or open gaps in the woods, you generally will hold position on the road because the race tends to form packs, so being fast in the woods is key.
the race starts on a road then quickly goes onto a rail trail with two places you can ride, so it forms into 2 lines rolling fast with people trying to move up on the side and middle, with mixed luck. If you have good handling skills and courage, you can get to the front by bombing up the sides, but it’s risky. The middle is really dicey and you tend to get closed out. After 20 minutes, the path turns right up a steep hill that generally causes a dismount, then turns into a windy false flat, this is where the selections are made for the most part. There are some rolling hills on the road after this where you can put your head down and move up in the race, but by 30 minutes you will have established yourself in a group. In general, many people who ride this race have poor group riding skills, so a group of 20 may be no faster than a group of 3, keep trying to move forward in the woods and don’t be a hero in the groups on the road, just take your pull and stay toward the front.
people start to come unglued about 90 mins in, then the last few miles are rolling with a very hard climb to a surprise finish. When you see people standing on the roadside, put your head down and go
there are nice showers at the arena, make sure to plan to have dry clothes there, good luck
here’s my race from last year if its helpful, i did not do very well, i flatted maybe 15 mins out and finished carrying my bike.
Awesome tips, thanks.