Cyclist needs a few running (prep) tips

[tetonrider]

I’ve got a run & ride event in 30 days. It’s a pretty straight-forward 5k run + 15k TT.

The problem is that I’m a bike racer and not at all a runner. It’s out of my comfort zone, but the starting line is also 100’ from my house. I’m looking for a bit of advice on running prep over the next ~4 weeks.

I did the event 2 years ago…no running prep, literally no run warm-up; I paced my run based on just a feel for tempo/threshold and wound up running a 7:50 pace. I was actually proud of that. I hopped on my TT bike and…HR was @ threshold but power was tempo. NO biggie…not much I could do about it.

I couldn’t race last year as I’d broken my femur a month prior. No run for me!

I’d like to have a good run, but I’m not too stressed about crushing it. I’m not trying to compete I’d mainly like to set myself up to just have a solid (threshold) ride on the bike…a ride at mid-threshold power will get me the best bike split.

I’m about 6% lighter now than I was then (would that mean about 6% faster on the run, all else equal?). I was thinking that perhapsI should start out with 1/2 mile run, 1/2 mile walk. Not sure about the best way to ramp up.

Any ideas for a plan for the next 4 weeks?

My primary thing will be training on the bike, but i could do morning runs as often as advisable. Should I run easy and get used to the distance? Should I break it up with running and walking? Should I do some all-out efforts? What is the best way to warm-up race morning…just do a running warm-up?

For reference, last year I threw on some shoes and did an all-out mile (no real warm-up) in ~7:00, just on the spur of the moment. I could not have continued that for 2 more miles.

Thank you!

[Titanflexr]

Try doing some easy 3mi runs just to get your body used to it (8:30-9:00 pace). Starting week two make one of the runs an interval session: run 400m at your mile pace (1:45), then do an easy walk/jog for 400m. Repeat four times in week two, six in weeks 3 and 4.

[tetonrider]

Try doing some easy 3mi runs just to get your body used to it (8:30-9:00 pace). Starting week two make one of the runs an interval session: run 400m at your mile pace (1:45), then do an easy walk/jog for 400m. Repeat four times in week two, six in weeks 3 and 4.
Thank you!

Would those interval sessions consist of 3 miles of run+walk or 3 miles of running (+3 of walking)?

Thank you!

[Titanflexr]

Try doing some easy 3mi runs just to get your body used to it (8:30-9:00 pace). Starting week two make one of the runs an interval session: run 400m at your mile pace (1:45), then do an easy walk/jog for 400m. Repeat four times in week two, six in weeks 3 and 4.
Thank you!

Would those interval sessions consist of 3 miles of run+walk or 3 miles of running (+3 of walking)?

Thank you!

Week 2 is 1 mile of speedwork (4X400) plus the 1 mile of walk/jog recoveries (total of two miles)

Weeks 3&4 are 150% of that.

This is a pretty light program, basically leveraging your bike fitness and getting some running adaptation.

For the race, the 5k should be pretty much an all out effort (minus the sprint at the end).

[tetonrider]

Try doing some easy 3mi runs just to get your body used to it (8:30-9:00 pace). Starting week two make one of the runs an interval session: run 400m at your mile pace (1:45), then do an easy walk/jog for 400m. Repeat four times in week two, six in weeks 3 and 4.
Thank you!

Would those interval sessions consist of 3 miles of run+walk or 3 miles of running (+3 of walking)?

Thank you!

Week 2 is 1 mile of speedwork (4X400) plus the 1 mile of walk/jog recoveries (total of two miles)

Weeks 3&4 are 150% of that.

This is a pretty light program, basically leveraging your bike fitness and getting some running adaptation.

For the race, the 5k should be pretty much an all out effort (minus the sprint at the end).

Got it…thanks!

I was thinking my 5k should be more a low threshold effort than all out, as I have to bike after it and I’d rather do a 21’ 15k bike split than a 21’ 5k. (If my best mile last year…with no warm up and having run probably a sum total of 10 miles all year was 7:00, then is it possible in a month doing what you outlined I could string together here of those with a little effort? Not even sure what is feasible.)

I am 5# lighter than when I did that 7’ effort and also not coming off of multiple surgeries in the prior 6 months, so there is that.

[Titanflexr]

I’m just speaking from experience. You can do a 5k at LT and still time trial well, especially with no 2nd run.

[Mike_Prevost]

Try doing some easy 3mi runs just to get your body used to it (8:30-9:00 pace). Starting week two make one of the runs an interval session: run 400m at your mile pace (1:45), then do an easy walk/jog for 400m. Repeat four times in week two, six in weeks 3 and 4.

^^^This is a good recommendation. Simple, but effective, especially given the time constraint to your race.

[tetonrider]

I’m just speaking from experience. You can do a 5k at LT and still time trial well, especially with no 2nd run.
Thanks! Any special prep I need to bike off of the run, or can I just insert the runs into my mornings (I generally do bike workouts in the afternoon)?

[tetonrider]

Try doing some easy 3mi runs just to get your body used to it (8:30-9:00 pace). Starting week two make one of the runs an interval session: run 400m at your mile pace (1:45), then do an easy walk/jog for 400m. Repeat four times in week two, six in weeks 3 and 4.

^^^This is a good recommendation. Simple, but effective, especially given the time constraint to your race.
Thanks for the confirmation. I’m going to start on this program this morning.

[tetonrider]

Try doing some easy 3mi runs just to get your body used to it (8:30-9:00 pace). Starting week two make one of the runs an interval session: run 400m at your mile pace (1:45), then do an easy walk/jog for 400m. Repeat four times in week two, six in weeks 3 and 4.

Thanks again for giving me a simple plan. I am fired up. Cranked out a 5k easy jog before work this morning. I was just pacing by feel. Worked out to be an 8:08 pace (was running into a headwind out, tail return). No real warm-up, just set off running.

I felt comfortable (not easy); I could feel the effort in my quads as I walked to cool down.

My threshold HR (40k biking) is ~175 for reference. I’m 41yo and fairly lean (~7%BF based on my last DEXA @ 8.8% and ~5# heavier). Kind of curious as to whether 6:59 pace x 3.1 miles is possible for me in a month…PLUS at least a low threshold (power) bike.

[Titanflexr]

Great start! aim for three runs per week (one is the interval set starting week2). Don’t do more; your fitness will come from the bike miles, you’re just getting running adaptation (and don’t want to compromise your main bike training). A couple of notes:

Heart rate zones when running are often higher than biking (more muscles are used, and you’re more vertical).

Intervals can be done with a GPS watch or a measured part of a road, but are traditionally done on the track at the local high school (ride/drive over, do your set, drive/ride home).

There is no special adaptation for biking after a run in a race (the opposite is definitely not true though). The one issue to deal with is the clothing transition; in a TT you have all day to put on your helmet, adjust the wrinkles from your skinsuit, etc.; not in a du/tri.

[lightheir]

FWIW, I’d seriously avoid ‘all-out’ short run intervals until you’ve built up to such efforts gradually starting from slower paces since you’re coming off an injury. Unlike cycling, where you can go all-out, repeatedly, even if you’re out of shape and just get sore, you can actually overstrain and tear bones and tendons in running if you do that coming from out-of-run-shape condition. Build gradually.

[tetonrider]

Great start! aim for three runs per week (one is the interval set starting week2). Don’t do more; your fitness will come from the bike miles, you’re just getting running adaptation (and don’t want to compromise your main bike training). A couple of notes:

Heart rate zones when running are often higher than biking (more muscles are used, and you’re more vertical).

Intervals can be done with a GPS watch or a measured part of a road, but are traditionally done on the track at the local high school (ride/drive over, do your set, drive/ride home).

There is no special adaptation for biking after a run in a race (the opposite is definitely not true though). The one issue to deal with is the clothing transition; in a TT you have all day to put on your helmet, adjust the wrinkles from your skinsuit, etc.; not in a du/tri.
Thank you.

Also, when you suggested my base runs, were you thinking they should be just below lactate threshold? I’m wondering how to estimate LT pace. The only data I have is:
2013 @ 9# heavier: 7:50/mile pace for 5k.
2014 @ 5-6# heavier: 7:00 fastest mile
and today’s effort.

I felt like I could have run 10k at today’s 8:08 pace and still been pretty OK.

Point taken about intervals on a track. I have one ~15’ away, but I also have a bike path with a known distance 100’ from where I sit.

Also…points taken about transition. The last time I did this event it took me 1’ to transition from run to bike. I have no idea if that is good or bad, but I was pretty blown after the run and actually needed to sit on the curb for a minute. I will run in a s/s skin suit, so no issues there. My helmet is not hard to put on (Kask)–main thing is the shoes. I was thinking of getting some of those Xtenex laces.

I don’t know if a reasonable transition would be 20 or 30" (i.e. I’m giving up lots of “free” time), or if ~1’ was about right and maybe I’d just given up a handful of seconds.

Oh yeah…it would probably take 5-10" just to get from the run finish to the bike start/weave through people even if one magically had all their stuff on instantly.

Today a friend told me that I should be able to run 19:00 for a 5k. I’m not sure I could (def couldn’t bike afterwards), but it got me thinking about whether I should be capable of that pace and could essentially run 20 or 21 and feel like I held back so that I can bike at my true threshold power.

[tetonrider]

FWIW, I’d seriously avoid ‘all-out’ short run intervals until you’ve built up to such efforts gradually starting from slower paces since you’re coming off an injury. Unlike cycling, where you can go all-out, repeatedly, even if you’re out of shape and just get sore, you can actually overstrain and tear bones and tendons in running if you do that coming from out-of-run-shape condition. Build gradually.

Thanks for sharing your concern.

To be sure I understand, the intervals suggested about (400m) are not “all-out” as it was suggested I do them at my fastest-mile pace. Does that reduce the concern?

Also, I have no interest in injuring myself for this event. I ran today. Should I take 1-2 days off from running before the next one?

I understand we’re talking about 2-3 relatively easy runs per week and 1 with the intervals.

Also…just curious on pacing for the easier runs, i.e., is the 8:30/mile recommendation based on my last 5k effort, or is it based on the fact that my best mile last year was 7:00? If I think I can hit 21:00 for the 5k, should I base my “easy” runs on a pace that is 15-30"/mile slower than the 21:00 goal or the 8:30?

Sorry if I’m a bit dense/new to this.

[lightheir]

Yes - mile pace should be more reasonable, but still monitor yourself and if any tendon starts getting goofy, err on the safe side and ease up on it until you’re more confident at a later date that you can handle the speed. Mile pace running is still very fast, albeit a lot slower than an all-out anaerobic sprint pace.

[echappist]

I’ve got a run & ride event in 30 days. It’s a pretty straight-forward 5k run + 15k TT.

The problem is that I’m a bike racer and not at all a runner. It’s out of my comfort zone, but the starting line is also 100’ from my house. I’m looking for a bit of advice on running prep over the next ~4 weeks.

I did the event 2 years ago…no running prep, literally no run warm-up; I paced my run based on just a feel for tempo/threshold and wound up running a 7:50 pace. I was actually proud of that. I hopped on my TT bike and…HR was @ threshold but power was tempo. NO biggie…not much I could do about it.

I couldn’t race last year as I’d broken my femur a month prior. No run for me!

I’d like to have a good run, but I’m not too stressed about crushing it. I’m not trying to compete I’d mainly like to set myself up to just have a solid (threshold) ride on the bike…a ride at mid-threshold power will get me the best bike split.

I’m about 6% lighter now than I was then (would that mean about 6% faster on the run, all else equal?). I was thinking that perhapsI should start out with 1/2 mile run, 1/2 mile walk. Not sure about the best way to ramp up.

Any ideas for a plan for the next 4 weeks?

My primary thing will be training on the bike, but i could do morning runs as often as advisable. Should I run easy and get used to the distance? Should I break it up with running and walking? Should I do some all-out efforts? What is the best way to warm-up race morning…just do a running warm-up?

For reference, last year I threw on some shoes and did an all-out mile (no real warm-up) in ~7:00, just on the spur of the moment. I could not have continued that for 2 more miles.

Thank you!

oh this is easy. FTP 1.1w/kg per m/s. which means you should be able to run an hour at, say 9.8 mph if you completely switch to running. 7 mph is easily doable

seriously though, i doubt 4 weeks would allow you to run at high tempo pace for 5 k. 8-12 week lead up would be much more preferable. If i were you i’d just slog the run and slaughter people on the 15k TT.

[tetonrider]

I’ve got a run & ride event in 30 days. It’s a pretty straight-forward 5k run + 15k TT.

The problem is that I’m a bike racer and not at all a runner. It’s out of my comfort zone, but the starting line is also 100’ from my house. I’m looking for a bit of advice on running prep over the next ~4 weeks.

I did the event 2 years ago…no running prep, literally no run warm-up; I paced my run based on just a feel for tempo/threshold and wound up running a 7:50 pace. I was actually proud of that. I hopped on my TT bike and…HR was @ threshold but power was tempo. NO biggie…not much I could do about it.

I couldn’t race last year as I’d broken my femur a month prior. No run for me!

I’d like to have a good run, but I’m not too stressed about crushing it. I’m not trying to compete I’d mainly like to set myself up to just have a solid (threshold) ride on the bike…a ride at mid-threshold power will get me the best bike split.

I’m about 6% lighter now than I was then (would that mean about 6% faster on the run, all else equal?). I was thinking that perhapsI should start out with 1/2 mile run, 1/2 mile walk. Not sure about the best way to ramp up.

Any ideas for a plan for the next 4 weeks?

My primary thing will be training on the bike, but i could do morning runs as often as advisable. Should I run easy and get used to the distance? Should I break it up with running and walking? Should I do some all-out efforts? What is the best way to warm-up race morning…just do a running warm-up?

For reference, last year I threw on some shoes and did an all-out mile (no real warm-up) in ~7:00, just on the spur of the moment. I could not have continued that for 2 more miles.

Thank you!

oh this is easy. FTP 1.1w/kg per m/s. which means you should be able to run an hour at, say 9.8 mph if you completely switch to running. 7 mph is easily doable

seriously though, i doubt 4 weeks would allow you to run at high tempo pace for 5 k. 8-12 week lead up would be much more preferable. If i were you i’d just slog the run and slaughter people on the 15k TT.
i’ve decided my goal is going to be ~20’ in the 5k and have a decent bike (threshold power) off of that. i will know more once i do a couple of speed sessions.

20’ puts me close enough to the good runners who can also have a decent bike, so we shall see. i ordered elastic laces a moment ago and may try a flying mount with my shoes on the bike.

we’ll see. no point in aiming for mediocre.

[Titanflexr]

The 3mi runs are meant to be easy, resist the urge to push them. If you felt like you could go 3 more miles then pacing was about right. Many runners make the mistake of training in the “gray zone”; going too hard on easy days and too easy on hard days.

For the intervals, if they feel too easy then speed up the recovery walk/jog vs. speeding up the interval. You should finish feeling like you could have done one more.

No need for special laces, just pull your running shoes off when you reach your bike (elastic laces are so we can put the shoes on faster).

In the race you should be pretty redline by the end of the run (mine are usually within 15 sec. of my open times). Spin a slightly lighter gear for the first 1k of the bike to settle in.

In terms of judging LT, short of doing a treadmill test, just go by perceived effort (you know what it feels like from the bike). Typically your breathing rate takes a big jump when you pass LT.

One option (at the risk of overdoing it) is to do a local 5k the week before the race. You can see what kind of time to aim for, and learn from any pacing mistakes.

As for what time you’ll run…hard to say. I’ve known Cat IIs that couldn’t break 20min for a year after they started multisport, and 15min. 5k runners who struggled in Cat IV. History is the best predictor. If your 3mi runs are at 8:08, then 7:30 or better is certainly reasonable in a race situation.

[craigj532]

If the best single mile you could run last year was 7:00, what makes you think that you’ll be able to run 3.1 miles at 6:30 pace four weeks from now?

[tetonrider]

If the best single mile you could run last year was 7:00, what makes you think that you’ll be able to run 3.1 miles at 6:30 pace four weeks from now?

i probably can’t do it, but i like to think about what might be possible.

here’s why i think it might be possible (feel free to shoot me down):

• when i ran that mile, i was literally sitting at my desk and got the idea to go all out 5’ beforehand. hand my shoes on, out the door and started running within 20 steps. no warm-up. turns out it was 6:56.
• i broke my femur 3 months prior to that…to the day.
• i had “run” one time, one month prior (trot 1/2 mile, walk 1/2 x3).
• i was 5# heavier than i am today.

running 6:30 x 3.1 is probably unlikely, but if i do my speed work at that pace, then maybe it is possible.

i have plenty of engine in me, lots of ability to suffer for 20’, and plenty of endurance. i need to move my feet/legs at that pace. no illusions–i have no economy at that pace right now…but maybe in 4 weeks???

truth is, i’d be stoked with 21’…hell, i’ll be thrilled with any time as long as i give every step my full effort. just doing this race is stepping out of my comfort zone.