I’m training for the Charlotte marathon in December, using Hal Higdon’s “Advanced 1” program. I’m only in week 4 (of 18) and already I’m feeling the aches & pains of training and wondering how I’m going to make it through another 14 weeks without injury. My last marathon was in 2004, and since have been focused on triathlon training. I trained for and raced IMFL last year, completely injury-free, running only 3-4 times per week. I’m positive it was the combination of lower frequency, lower intensity and cross-training benefits that kept me healthy.
I’m considering dropping my Monday & Wednesday “junk” runs and substituting hour-long cycling workouts on these days, in addition to adding a bike day on the weekend (the day before the long run) in hopes of building additional endurance, leg strength and preventing burnout. I know that in order to be a better runner, one needs to run more, but I have the sense of impending doom with so many days and weeks of pounding ahead.
Anyone have any experience using the bike as a staple of marathon or ultramarathon training? Can you run a PR marathon on only 4 running days per week? I’m aware of the FIRST program (running only 3x per week, long-tempo-interval w/ cross training in between) and I guess that’s what this plan would resemble.
I would recommend to anyone that adding biking to your marathon training is a great idea and definitely works. I brought my marathon PB down from 2:59 to 2:51 (6th marathon) by adding the bike to my regular workout routine.
I didn’t do what you are suggesting though. I brought down my running mileage, but I still ran a considerable amount of miles. I was doing 50-100km bikes followed by 30-45 minute brick runs. I would also do a mid week 10 miler as well as my weekend long run (I was able to get by with only one 20 miler using this method). I got my weekly mileage up to around 55 miles max as opposed to 80 miles or so in the past. I was definitely pleased with my results, and of 6 marathons, it was the first one I was able to stay injury through the all of my training.
I am far from an expert, but I will give my opinion. Do with it what you will. Your first goal is to show up healthy. If you can’t handle the volume you need to cut back. Cycling can help your running, but to run well, you need to run as much as possible. I don’t think the bike helps a lot with running except for helping improve body composition. If this is your goal, ride longer. I don’t see a whole lot of value in an hour ride. I don’t think you can replace running with biking. In the end, it’s better to bike than to do nothing. You may want to try some aqua running instead. I hear that works well. As far as a PR- I guesss it’s ll about where you’re starting at. What is your current PR? I know I couldn’t PR with anything less than 7 runs a weekand lots of volume, but other are different. Don’t forget to look at your nutrition / body composition as well. Being even 5 pounds too heavy can be really hard on runners getting ready for a marathon. This is where a lot of injuries come from. Hopefully some of this helps. Good luck with your training and the race.
That’s promising to hear. I’d like to stay under 50 miles per week and keep a minimum of 3 hours on the bike for base purposes. Thanks for the response.
I completed the Myrtle Beach Marathon with a PR of 18 minutes in 2006 which qualified me for Boston. I basically used a variation of the first approach tempo/interval - Pace. Running 3 days a week) I cycle and swim year round so those were my cross training days. Best marathon I ever had out of 13 tries.
Training for marathons is how I got hooked on Du’s. My body was not happy with the marathon training. I thought cycling would be helpful in developing the cardio side of things & give the body a bit of a rest. It worked out geat, I was injury free & I took 23 minutes off my 42k time. I only ran 3 days per week (One interval, one tempo & one long embassingly slow)
I do (and I am doing) the same right now. But, I’m still running about 6 times per week (occasional 2/day). You can substitute your cross train/easy day with some cycling, but there really is no substitute for a lot of running. My cycling now is either a race (short tri like a sprint or OLY) or a very long ride 60-120 miles. Running after that gets the legs used to “running tired” which is advocated by some. Advanced1 Higdon is pretty tough if I remember (like 3 - 20 milers and a couple of 18-19s too, every other weekend, plus midweek long runs to 12 right?) Easy to get injured for sure. If you don’t - PR on the horizon though
I wonder about these PR marathons coming on lower run volumes supplemented with high doses of cross training. My marathon PR is 3:27 but I’m fairly certain that even without speedwork and running only 3-4 times per week while IM training, I could have run a 3:15 solo marathon in Panama City Beach. I think the benefits of a deep aerobic base that comes with IM training alone could improve anyone’s marathon time even on low run mileage.
Advanced1 Higdon is pretty tough if I remember (like 3 - 20 milers and a couple of 18-19s too, every other weekend, plus midweek long runs to 12 right?)
Exactly. Which is what’s got me worried. I’ve done more 20’s than I care to remember, but never coupled with high mileage, high intensity training.
If you want to include cycling, you are better off sticking in one long ride a week. I have found great benefits to keeping my heart elevated for 3 - 6 hours at a time. There is a college program out there (can’t remember who) that would do a several hour long ride the day after their races.
I did about the same thing you are thinking of doing, but I also was doing quite a bit of swimming. I felt very strong through out the whole marathon. It was a PR at the time of 3:25, only my second marathon, I had run a 3:39 the first one. I could of finished faster but I was helping pace a guy who just wanted to break 3:30 so it felt very easy for me. I planned on running another marathon 6 weeks later to push myself and see how fast I could go but I tore my achilles tendon playing paint ball a week after the race. I steped wrong in a hole, I do not think it was related to my training.
i think it’s a good idea to cross-train with cycling. If your body can’t handle the pounding of the additional miles, you need another way of maintaining the aerobic base. Cycling is just one of many ways in which you can cross train. Fin-swimming is another good activity.
Don’t expect too much performance-enhancement from your cycling. The primary movers in cycling are the quads, whereas in running it’s the glutes and hams.
You might want to consider using powercranks during your cycling sessions. They help develop the hip flexors. This may be beneficial during running.
Look at the thread on Biomechanics of running.
Since you will be putting less total running miles, I would make them quality miles. Do some interval work and tempo runs. Keep the cycling as an LSD workout.
I just finished reading a book by Pete Pfitzinger and Scott Douglas call “Advanced Marathoning” and in it they wrote of using cycling as cross training. They quoted a study that was published in the February 1998 issue of Medcine and Science in Sports and Exercise (Flynn et al. 1998). They said the took, “Twenty well-trained distance runners increased their training for 6 weeks by adding three workouts per week. One group(run + run) added running workouts, whereas the other group (run + cycle) added cycling workouts. bother groups improved their 5k times by approx. 28 seconds (from 18:16 to 17:48) after the 6 weeks of increased training”
To me this makes a good indication that replacing the “junk” miles with quality cross training can improve times. They authors did go on to say that cross training that worked large-muscle groups of the legs (cycling, rowing, deep-water running, and cross-country skiing) had better improvements to activities with less similar muscle groups (ie swimming)
I will also be using cycling during my marathon training to try to keep the aerobic volume high, but the potential for injury low.
My thought would be why are you using a plan verbatim from a book? Take the principles that the author is talking about and then apply them to your specific situation.
That’s pretty much what I’m doing, but keeping the prescribed structured runs in place (ie: tempo, race pace, hill repeats, LSD) but working in what I feel I can handle on the less structured days. I always pick a plan for the framework, and adjust to my work schedule, current health status & upcoming races.
Took up cycling (and, shortly thereafter, tris) following a miserable Kiawah Island Marathon in 2001. Training for Richmond (twice), Boston and Kiawah, I had used Runners World programs that relied on six days a week of running, very little cross training. It got me comfortably to a 3:48 for my first marathon (Richmond 99), then to a 3:31 for my second (Richmond 00) - with a spectacular case of shin splints. Third marathon (Boston 01) was not so hot, and the fourth was a stunning blow-up at Kiawah.
Finally told my cyclist husband that it was time for me to get a bike…
Didn’t run another marathon until 2004. Coming off a half iron that September, I stepped into a different program, but altered it so that I kept the three longest runs of the week, and eliminated the others in favor of two riding days (one 1-1.5 hour and one 2-2.5, on the Sunday after the Saturday long run) and two (easy) swimming days. Finished Richmond with a 3:31 that year, and Boston this spring with the same time. Injury free. I’m sure that if I had actually done any significant track or tempo work, it could have been a PR…looking for one in Philly in November.
I’m hearing lots about volume, but I know my body, and it can’t do six days a week anymore (pretty sad, I’m only 27) and frankly, I don’t want to do it either. (I’d hate to leave that pretty bike hanging on the rack for two months!)
You know your body best, but if you are feeling a sense of impending doom now, it doesn’t bode well for your mind or your body come December!
I agree with other posters on water running. To avoid injuries I do about half my run workouts on land and half in water or on an eliptical machine and usually feel very good on triathlon runs. If you are trying to lose some lbs, cycling would be a good idea otherwise, stick mostly with water.
Cross training has its benefits for general health and fitness. But for a runner to substitute cycling for more running – it really doesn’t help. There have been numerous tests of the idea done with controlled groups of athletes doing it both ways. The ones who run more race faster, plain and simple. This a setup where the groups would each train the same basic number of hours, but one would do some cycling. The group that only runs always wins.
What isn’t quite so clear (to me anyway) is what happens if you add hours to your program on the bike. In other words, if you were only going to run 10 hours a week anyway, and you added a few hours of cycling: Would you run faster than you would have on the basic 10-hour run program? Some say yes; some say know. I think, “It depends.”
