What are your thoughts about cycling cadence (high or low) and how it effects running performance off the bike? Check out the new article about cycling cadence and running performance complete with scientific backing… it’s pretty interesting: http://breakthroughmultisport.blogspot.com/2009/10/cycling-cadence-and-running-off-bike.html
I used to try and spin at/close to 100. I’d run better than my friends in races. I figured the higher cadence helped. Now I have a PM and realize I do best (on the bike) with a low/mid 80’s cadence. My running has not changed…n=1. I vote you ride with the cadence that gives you the best power…
I didn’t read the link yet but will try tonight.
Dave
Edit: I read the link. I disagree with the “most efficient stride rate” is 90. It depends on who you are and how fast you run. The myth that “all elites run at 90” is B.S. I think - I see elites run almost daily - they run 100+ when moving. I don’t think you can run <2:10 in a marathon at 90 - let alone a 13 min 5K (could be wrong about that though :). I used to do what you describe (spin more at the end of the bike), but now I just try and ride my plan - stay to self-selected cadence throughout (based on RPE) - maybe take it easy for the last 2-3 minutes of a longer race (half IM up). It seems to work just as well. My legs often feel like crap for the first 1/2-2 miles but even though they feel like crap and I feel slow - they are often my fastest miles…and that hasn’t changed with spinning vs. no spinning. Again n=1.
It should read “90+++++++ rpm” not just 90rpm."
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Are you suggesting that a running cadence of 90 is too slow? That’s something I need to work on . My typical turnover is about 85…
Previously in IM, I would ride at 90-100 but struggle to reach 90 on the IM run.
For IM distance my coach is encouraging me to towards having a lower cadence (80-85ish) on the bike and a higher one on the run (90-100). Having a higher running cadence is working for me when running off the bike. To get that cadence I have to shorten my stride a bit and that means there is less that can go wrong with the biomechanics of it.
Also, your article says something I disagree with: "Increasing your (cycling) cadence will usually reduce the force production and subsequent oxygen consumption while riding. " My experience is that increasing cadence increases heart rate for a given power output. I beleive this is as there are greater frictional losses in your body.
What are your thoughts about cycling cadence (high or low) and how it effects running performance off the bike? Check out the new article about cycling cadence and running performance complete with scientific backing… it’s pretty interesting: http://breakthroughmultisport.blogspot.com/2009/10/cycling-cadence-and-running-off-bike.html
I started cycling for triathlon reasons two years ago. From day 1 I used Fr305 with a cadence sensor.
I have always let my body self select the desired cadence, whatever felt the least torque to go fast. I have never displayed cad on the computer, I don’t pay attention to it until I download and look at the data. My riding came after spending a year running mostly on treadmills due to travel. I have no cycling or running background.
Downloaded cadence is always dead on and never changes:
Long rides Z1-2, avg cad 98
Z3, HIM racing avg cad 101
Z4-5a,b or olympic, sprint avg cad 103
Now, I am a poor runner with high running cad. I have a Garmin pod, I consistently record 92-94, same if I count and even across for variety of paces.
And now what. I am consistently passed by people that mash or people that have a horrible overstride, have poor running mechanics but are capable of fast running.
My HIM PR is 4:39, 2:30 bike split, 1:37 run split. Two other races looked 4:47 with 2:27/ 1:44, 4:44 with 2:27/1:42. I train 15-17hrs/week, 150-170mi/week and 35-45mi week bike/run respectively.
Just like anything else, someone here is sitting and overthinking everything triathlon related. I am sure I can find a detail somewhere and write a dissertation about it.
In my short experience, cycling cadence has no bearing on my run performance. In the end ask Chrissie Wellington about her mashing and than look at her splits. You can throw all the “science” out the window.
I will continue to spin as I do, however when I become capable of running sub 1:25 open half, I may actually become a triathlete capable of running sub 1:30 split after my bike effort.
Absolutely correct, it should read 90+ RPM for optimal running cadence- I just modified the original article.
In general, “science” that is conducted in a lab is just that- conducted in a lab. It can be quite useful when taken in context, but has to be applied in the real world.
What are your thoughts about cycling cadence (high or low) and how it effects running performance off the bike? Check out the new article about cycling cadence and running performance complete with scientific backing… it’s pretty interesting .
Oh dear.
So true! I have spent enough time in the lab as the researcher and as the rat to know that what we found to be “true” in the lab just was not practical in the real world. However, with the running cadence issue, at 90+ the foot seems to be landing primarily UNDER the center of mass (hips primarily) instead of out in front which can and does cause braking. Good write up Ryan! You guys do a great job from what it looks like.
I think the best statement in the article is this - "
That being said, increasing your leg turnover, in a fashion that is equal to or above your desired running cadence should set you up for a better run.
As I find it hard to beleive that someone can ride at 80 rpm for 180km then suddenly increase the leg speed and maintain 90+ for 42km of running.
just looked at the cadence from this mornings run - average 85, first time I have ever looked at my running cadence.
What are your thoughts about cycling cadence (high or low) and how it effects running performance off the bike? Check out the new article about cycling cadence and running performance complete with scientific backing… it’s pretty interesting: http://breakthroughmultisport.blogspot.com/...unning-off-bike.html
Well that was disappointing. I was expecting some actual research or at least anecdotal evidence of riding with a high or low cadence was better for running off. There are a few pretty big logic jumps made i there without much explanation - and what makes it worse from most evidence you’ve got it wrong. Until proven otherwise stick with what the best coach with results over decades of improving athletes preaches - riding under 85, and running over 90.
One major error IMHO: increasing cadence above 90 and keeping power the same will increase oxygen consumption in most, not decrease it, as the article states. Certainly there is zero science to back that statement up and, while I did not read the referenced article it appears to have some major design flaws from reading the abstract.
And, perhaps the best argument against the assertion: C. Wellington.
One major error IMHO: increasing cadence above 90 and keeping power the same will increase oxygen consumption in most, not decrease it, as the article states. Certainly there is zero science to back that statement up and, while I did not read the referenced article it appears to have some major design flaws from reading the abstract.
And, perhaps the best argument against the assertion: C. Wellington.
Does she cycle at a high cadence?
Not sure I agree, but I do think you are probably on to something regarding using the last portion of the bike leg to prepare to run.
I like to spend the last few minutes (only 5-10 for an OLY) varying my power output wildly. Around my home the terrain is rolling enough that this is fulfilled by riding hard up the hills where my cadence drops to @ 80 and spinning without effort on the backsides at @100. I’m varying both cadence and power. I also, overall, lower my power output those last few minutes to allow my heart rate to come down quite a bit from threshold.
All of these changes done together seem to work very well for getting me ready to run.
As for target cadence on the bike…I haven’t thought about the run, but only the bike. My self-selected cadence (developed through many miles of trying to maximize my speed on the bike) tends to be 95. That’s what I spin because it makes me cycle fastest…don’t know if it impacts my run at all. But this cadence is NOT for long-course races…I don’t go long. If I were to be thinking long, I’d likely bring my cadence down a notch…perhaps in the 90 range…but again more for cycling reasons than running.
Thanks for provoking conversation.
from the studies ive read, it does not make a whole lot of difference as long as youre swimming, biking, running at YOUR optimal cadence, for each.
I’m confused about the 90 running cadence is optimal idea. This applies to a 6’8" guy as well as a 5’3" guy running the same speed? Cause it takes a lot of work to get these legs moving that fast!
Yep that’s for everyone - at least over 85 even for big guys. No matter how tall you are if you’re running below 80, chances are you’re a pretty bad tri-runner.