Cuss words/Vulgar Language

Triathlon Forum
1

Insomnia strikes again … (Nothing new for me)

Here goes …

Today in class, a girl’s books dropped off her desk, and she says “Shit” and immediately covers her mouth realizing what she has said, and apologizes. I have 4 simple class rules, and rule #4 says that vulgar/inappropriate language will not be tolerated.

I gave her a warning (instead of a referral to the Dean), and was wondering if I might have set a precedent that could come back to haunt me.

Anyway … these last few days I have said that I miss the behavior of my buddies that involves rough language (curse words, etc), have used some myself, and have said that I am a Christian, which may have raised some eyebrows. Personally, I can easily explain that … for quite a few years in my late teens, early adulthood I was not living in a manner that would “give glory to God”. Sometimes it may seem that I brag on that, but I don’t. I use the p— word to mean “sissy” or “wimp” and I say jackass or prick to mean “jerk”, and I’ve never really considered it to be “real bad”, but maybe it is by others.

So, I thought I would get some opinions on “cuss words”. Obviously, in our society cuss words are frowned upon. When someone cusses in a public setting many assumptions are made about that person’s intelligence, morals, etc. Most, if not all, of these assumptions are negative.

As someone that has played sports forever, bad words, rough language, etc has never really bothered me. Certainly coaches use language because it carries much more emphasis in times when the point must be made and it must be made immediately.

But, as the parent of a 2-year old, my cursing days (outisde of the occassional curse on the internet) are over. While playing Madden, if I say “Shoot” or “Dangit”, Jacob’s right there with a pointing finger saying “Daddy, No say that!”, and then the little tattler runs and tells his mom “Daddy say that!”. Innocence is a beautiful thing.

Anyway, there doesn’t seem to be any religous basis for not saying curse words. I don’t recall Jesus telling the apostle Paul, “Thou shout not refer to feces as “shit”, but “poop” or “crap” is okay”. Basically, the only thing I decipher is that a Christian is not to take the Lord’s name in vain (vane? Heck, I don’t know). So, I don’t say JC or GD in a dispairaging manner. The F dash dash dash word (as Ralphie puts it) is a result of a 1920s police term based on “For Unlawful carnal Knowledge” for crimes of rape, etc (at least I was told that quite a few years ago). Nowadys the F*** word is the most versatile word in our language … noun, verb, adjective, adverb, etc. A person could use the F*** word 5 different ways in the same sentence and people would still know what they meant.

My mom always said cuss words were what people said when the didn’t have a very big vocabulary (typical mom), and I’ve heard her say maybe 3 cuss words in the last 30 years. My dad on the other hand … well, he was raised on a small ranch and speaks “French” (no offense Francois) eloquently.

I was reminded of this topic, which I wanted to post on awhile ago, by a Simpson’s episode (tonight) where Marge says “Gosh Darnit we’re getting out of this heckhole”. I found that amussing.

Anyway, what are your opinions on the “diarrhea of the mouth”?

2

Doesn’t really bother me. I will raise an eyebrow if someone’s every other word is a curse word, but I certainly don’t make assumptions about their intelligence. One of the smartest guys I know curses quite a bit. Another guy I’ve known for years is one of those who uses versions of fuck as an adjective, noun, verb, adverb, you name it. He’s an attorney. I don’t know how he turns it on and off.

I’m probably more comfortable around someone who occasionally drops an expletive than someone who goes out of their way to say shoot, heck, gosh, and darn ALL of the time. Every once and a while there’s nothing more appropriate than a good curse.

3

If your gonna say crap what’s so bad about shit? I’ve seen people argue all day over the defintions and usage of words like marriage (mostly ultra conservative religous guys vs gay student union) and curse words. Words and their exact definitions are shallow, get over them. If the intended meaning is the same, what’s the difference? I shy away from people who think they are intellectualy or morally superior becuase they don’t curse, and instead use words that mean the exact same thing.

mabe it’s just me, it usually is.

4

I don’t know how he turns it on and off.

That’s my #1 fear … I’ll be in class and go something like this …

“So he fires cathode rays at a piece of foil and notices that … Hey you two, shut the fuck up?” … and not even realize I said it. =)

I can have a pretty grizzly-like voice, and when Madden 2004 is deciding that I’m not going to win no matter what, I have been known to yell a “Oh Come On!” at the screen to which my son replies “No Growling”. Growling? I have no idea why I’m typing this. Maybe Mr. Tibbs does.

5

Me too. Words are words. It’s the meaning behind the words that count. But, if I want to keep my job …

Also, I can’t really have my son going to kindergarten and tell his teacher he’s sick of this “Duck-Duck-Goose shit every fuckin’ day”, now can I? LMAO … Oops, that’s laughing my “arse” off. Heh Heh.

The above would definately earn him some “cred” with his uncles.

6

“A person could use the F*** word 5 different ways in the same sentence and people would still know what they meant.”

My wife invented that sentence.

I agree that it is not the best of situations, but it’s the reality of the world we live in. People swear on TV, everyone has cable, which is worse, my 13 year old nephew has a collection of R rated DVD’s, etc. Kids today are surrounded by it. It’s like smoking. If we are all doing it, it’s kind of hard to tell them it’s bad. You’re making a noble effort, for a few hours a day, but when the kids go home to their cussin’ parents, and a cussin’ society, you’re just pissing into the wind.

I have spent years trying to curb my potty-mouth, which I got from my Dad. But my wife has potty-mouth, and like I said before, everyone in all the shows I watch swears constantly, so it starts to become subconscious. You swear and don’t even realize it.

I even have trouble curbing it at work these days. Which brings me to an interesting story. I used to work with this very hot young woman with the filthiest mouth you’ve ever heard. She didn’t even bother trying to filter it. For some reason, on her, everybody thought it was just super. Apparently, when a beautiful woman swears, it’s sexy, but when anyone else swears, it’s just vulgar.

7

Man, that’s one long fuckin’ post.

Sorry, I couldn’t pass up the chance : )

8

Bah. Swear away. I find it convenient that I can clearly delineate myself from the overwhelming Mormon population in Utah with a few key words.

9

Hey Triplethreat

I had a friend that did just what you said during his SECOND day of practice teaching. He had an unruly class that wouldn’t shut up and he lost it and yelled “Would you all just shut the fuck up” … He thought that was it for his teaching career but fortunately his associate teacher was good about the whole thing and cut him some slack. I don’t think he does that anymore since he’s still teaching 12 years later :slight_smile:

In my classes, I seem to have a much different clientele than you if just one “shit” word comes out. I have the sort of students that use fuck as a verb, adjective, noun, and on and on and don’t seem capable of putting together a sentence without it. It can be very frustrating and I have to remind them of it constantly since they don’t seem to know when it is appropriate. However, one converstaion that I had with a parent pretty much sums it up … “Hi, Mr. Faulds, I guess Ronnie is doing pretty shitty in your class, oh fuck, I shouldn’t say words like that” …the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree :slight_smile:

11

I guess cursing has it’s place, but can easily be over used or offend the easily offended.

I usually swear out of frustration and when you say you use pussy to mean sissy or wimp, why not use sissy or wimp?

I hope as my kids get older I can explain the time and place logic of swearing. I have this image of me telling me son to not swear around grown ups, but swearing is what we do instead of crying. If he’s out with his friends and smashes his finger with a hammer, I don’t want him to cry. Just say fuck and get over it.

12

This may get a little long and rambling, so I apologize in advance. I have had this very conversation with a few people this week, and this what I have come to. First off, I am a Christian, and I try to live my life in such a way that glorifies God and sets a good example for my family, friends, coworkers, etc. But at the same time, I come from a long line of prolific cussers, and I used to be very, very good at it myself. But when I became a Christian, I decided I needed to tone down the language a bit.

Here are the conclusions I have come to: Fairly or unfairly, people will judge you based on several qualities, one of which is your language. Not just profanity, but word choice in general, accent, inflection, etc. I happen to live in south Georgia – deep in the heart of the Bible Belt. Profanity in Christian circles is frowned upon, and if a person cusses, they are often viewed as “less Christian.” This isn’t fair, because you can never say a cuss word and do quite a bit of damage with your tongue. Likewise, you can use profanity harmlessly and never hurt another person. It’s a double standard that unfortunately isn’t going away.

But society itself draws a line between what is acceptable and what isn’t. There may not be a difference between shit and crap – they are practically interchangeable – but society says there is. For example, you can watch a sitcom at 8:30 on a weeknight and a character may say crap, but you won’t hear someone on the same show say shit. Why not? Because certain governing bodies have deemed crap is OK for primetime but shit is not. Another example: I was watching “L.A. Law” many moons ago, and one character got mad at another. I think it was Susan Dey arguing with Harry Hamlin at a restaurant (were these folks even on “L.A. Law”? If not, I’ve really messed this up!), and Susan jumps up and says “You can go fornicate yourself!” Anybody else remember that episode? I think I have remembered it all these years because no one would say “fornicate yourself.” It’s a cumbersome expression, one that we don’t hear. In real life (or on HBO), she would have said “fuck off” or something like that. But she couldn’t say “fuck” on primetime then, and you still can’t now. Society won’t allow it.

I said all that to say this: Though there may be no difference between words like crap and shit, screw (or fornicate) and fuck, there are differences. Society says so. Some words and expressions are socially acceptable and some are not. That’s just the way it is.

Now, just in case anyone is wondering about what the Bible has to say about cussing, here goes. The Bible is very specific on some topics, a little more vague on others. Cussing is one of those vague areas. The Bible does have quite a bit to say about the language we use, but it doesn’t necessarily address cussing per se. The Bible says things like to use uplifting words, not to use offensive language, and not to harm others through our speech. In short, don’t say bad things and don’t harm others with your words. And you can say bad things and hurt others very badly without ever saying a cuss word. Offensive language will vary from country to country, state to state, even family to family. To a certain extent, society determines what is offensive and what isn’t.

The Bible also says not to do things to make others stumble. The apostle Paul wrote that (in Romans maybe?). He said that he had liberty to do what he wanted to do, but he restricted that liberty depending upon whom he was around. The topic he was specifically addressing was eating meat that had been sacrificed to pagan gods. After a sacrifice was made to Zeus, Apollo, or whoever, the animal would be sold in a public market. Some Christians at the time said it was bad to purchase and eat this meat. Paul said that was nonsense, in part because the pagan gods didn’t exist, and so the sacrifice was meaningless. However, he went on to say that he wouldn’t allow himself to eat this meat if it caused someone to stumble or question his (or their own) faith.

I think that principle applies to cussing, drinking and other such matters of judgment. So while crap and shit may be basically the same word, saying shit (at least in my part of the country) may cause someone to question my commitment to Christ, whereas saying crap won’t. So I choose to say crap.

So I think that’s it in a nutshell. It’s a personal choice, one that you have to decide for yourself. Are you going to hell for cussing? I don’t think so. Can you cause other people to stumble for cussing? I think so, maybe more so in some parts of the country (or world) than in others. I think it is my responsibility as a Christian to point others to Christ to the best of my ability, and if I use profanity, my witness will be compromised. If I’m in New York City, my witness may not be compromised at all. But, fairly or unfairly, in south Georgia it is. So I don’t cuss. But I’m not offended by those who do. And I try very hard not to judge people or consider them “less Christian or un-Christian” if I hear them cuss. Christianity is much, much more than that.

RP

13

Awesome explanation Robert! I was interested in this thread because I have had a similar situation. I mostly lurk here since I am new to tris. I spent 6 years in the NAvy where cursing was used at least 3 times per sentence :slight_smile: It took me a while to break that habit once I got back to civilization! I mostly quit because of the way it appeared to those around me. Especially as a Southern Baptist, you don’t want to be cussing in public and now I don’t for an example for my daughter.

A similar thing is alcohol. My Dad had kidney stones years ago and the Dr told him to drink 1 beer a day. Now, there is nothing wrong with it, but he said he didn’t want to be in the grocery store and have someone from the church seeing him with a 12 pack of beer :slight_smile: It’s more about perception than actual right or wrong.

Funny thing, I used to talk like that, and now when I hear the teens next door cussing up a storm, I have this urge to ask them if they know any other words :slight_smile:

15

Robert,

I basically feel the same way. I feel that cussing, while not a literal sin, detracts from my Christian life. That doesn’t mean it never happens, I think I’ve alreayd established, I’m not perfect.

As I typed the kinderarten joke above, I actually paused and wondered if people would thikn it was funny, thikn it was dumb, or think I was a hypocrit (sp?). It was intended to be funny for obvious reasons.

I also try to be a “billboard” for my Faith, my Profession, My family name, My hobbies/sport, etc. As I mentioned earlier, I’ll cuss from time to time on this forum , b/c to me this is a “informal” place where like-minded individuals come to pass the time, take a work break, ask a question, answer a question, and generally blow off some steam. In public, it’s a very different story.

I certianly would not cuss when making a presentation to department heads, potential employers, at an evaluation meeting, speaking in frontof the church (althout that might be fun to see if anyone is snoozing … “Did he just say what I think he said?”), etc.

In regards to cuss words, I always found it interesting that people could be pressured/influenced into thinking certain words were “bad” while others with the same meaning were “okay”. Quite likely, a very small group of influential people made the decision for the rest of us. anyone know the real deal with how “bad words became bad”?

16

I have often thought about what Jesus may or may not have said when He got angry. Yes, the Bible does say that He cursed the fig tree. But what exactly does “curse” mean? Does it mean that He dropped an F-bomb at the tree or did he utter a curse of some other kind? As we all know, cursing is one of those things that varies from culture to culture and time period to time period. To use our modern definition of curse to describe what Jesus said to the fig tree may be grossly inaccurate. Trying to figure out whether Jesus used profanity at the fig tree is splitting hairs, and attempting to use that as a license to use profanity is stretching things a bit. But once again, it comes down to a personal choice and the society in which you live. Jesus may have used a Hebrew expletive when He cursed the fig tree. I honestly don’t know. But I do know that if I used a modern expletive down here in the Bible Belt, it wouldn’t go over very well. That’s why I wouldn’t (but we’ve already covered that).

I don’t mean to sound self-righteous or overly pious. I am not perfect, and I make my fair share of mistakes. And I’m sure at times I am not at all a good representative of Christianity. But I try to do the best I can, and watching my language is one part of that.

RP

18

i golf with a priest…“as father mike says, any asshole can hit it the second time”

this guy has a very colorful vocabulary…and i don’t think it bothers him, why should it bother you?

that said, being in uni right now…my view of the world may be a little skewed…

19

Mr. Tibbs … if you are serious … it is using God’s name in an unintended manner. I frequently say “Good Lord” to something that is silly, weird, etc and it never really occurred to me that might not be correct. I use that phrase as meaning “Lord, would you look at this” in a humorous manner. whether God sees it like that or not, I do not know.

For Christians the term/name God is not something to be taken lightly. It is the name above all names. I don’t want to turn this into a religious thread or give people the perception that I am judging them at all times , I am just trying to explain a possible answer to your question.

What would be really ironic (coincidental?) is if an athiest said “GD”.

20

I believe it’s because of this verse:

Deuteronomy 5
11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

A person who says “Goddamnit” probably isn’t REALLY asking God to damn something, so they are using His name “in vain”, which Webster’s defines as “in an irreverent or blasphemous manner”.

For that reason, I feel “Goddamnit” and “Jesus Christ!” are more offensive than the f-bomb or other cuss words. Cuss words are just words, but GD and JC are blasphemies.

As someone has mentioned, swearing is just a normal part of most team sports, so I never really thought too much about it while playing baseball up through college, but when I got married and had kids, I realized that I needed to be a better example. I still will drop an f-bomb in cases of extreme frustration (mainly with myself: F-ME!), but otherwise I use the G-rated expletives: dang, heck, shoot.

(As an aside, our pastor used the term “dumb-ass” twice during the sermon this past Sunday in reference to what he might have said to Saul/Paul (a man who, up to that point, had been an enemy of Christianity) when he came into Damascus, as opposed to how Ananias was kind to him. Man, the older members have been in an uproar ever since! I thought he made his point very well, but, as has been mentioned, different demographics (location, age, etc.) will have different reactions.)

21

I still will drop an f-bomb in cases of extreme frustration (mainly with myself: F-ME!), but otherwise I use the G-rated expletives: dang, heck, shoot.

we’re very similar in this regard. In thoughts to myself, I can get very rough … especially when I’m being a “sissy” on a bike ride and “my legs are all burny and hurty” . A quick pep talk with some tempered words usually gets me back focused.

The g-rated words come rather natural to me now … so natural, in fact, that they come out in the presence of my brother in laws (corporate welder, construction worker, military guys) when we’re doing some home improvment stuff. They look at me with the “what? Did you get a paper cut sally?” look, because I’ll say “Aw, poop”.

I must say we humans are a funny group. We certainly are a fun group to observe.

22

Why do you guys feel the need to express yourselves with the use of “Colorful Metaphors” ( Spock to Captain Kirk in Star Trek the Voyage Home). It never ceases to amaze me in the business world or in the sports world that guys try to prove their masculinity with the use of profanity. I’ve had vendors who want my firm’s business use the “F” word as well as the “N” word in conversations. Are you trying to impress me? or yourself?

Regarding the use of God’s name in Vain, I’m sure She is not pleased. But why don’t you use Muhammad’s name in vain? of Allah? Perhaps because God is God not those imposters?

So knock it the fuck off you bastards!

Suzie

24

“But why don’t you use Muhammad’s name in vain? of Allah? Perhaps because God is God not those imposters”

With statements like this (and of course a couple of wars…), is it any wonder that 50 million muslims around the world hate the “Christian” nations?

Very nice statement. (yes… that was sarcasm).

I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend 'til my death, your right to say it.