used to be. Recently, I’ve ended up seeing a bunch of videos of the Crossfit games and going down the rabbit hole of reading comments online. I get that Crossfit tends to be this really positive community and such, but those top women are clearly on androgens of some kind, and the people defending them as natural are clueless.
At least with Armstrong there wasn’t visual evidence of doping in his physique.
The craziest are when there are before and after pictures of some top competitor who was well trained already in the before picture and had a decent natural physique but is now among the best and completely bulked up yet lean to a ridiculous level, and people believe it was because they got a different coach and started training differently.
At least in the powerlifting world there are plenty of instances where people were clean and then started doping and are honest about it so it’s pretty clear what the drugs are worth in terms of performance and how they change someone’s physique.
Edit: My mistake, this was meant for the Lavender room. Can a moderator move it?
I get that Crossfit tends to be this really positive community and such,
I think it’s worth separating out the pro scene from the local scene. I work out in a pretty serious ̶b̶o̶x̶ gym - “Games” competitors at the masters level. And I’d guess that no more than 20% of the members even know who Horvath or Tia-Toomey are.
Of course there are internet shitshows, just like the “ITA investigation” shitshow thread in this forum. And yes, doping is rampant at the Games level. (though I don’t think anyone in my gym is doping).
The fans end up copying training of these athletes and end up getting injured or seriously burned out
I’ve been in 3 gyms for about 5 years. I’ve never seen anyone try to copy the training of a pro, and the injury rate is far, far lower than I ever saw on my high school and collegiate XC/track teams.
The fans end up copying training of these athletes and end up getting injured or seriously burned out
I’ve been in 3 gyms for about 5 years. I’ve never seen anyone try to copy the training of a pro, and the injury rate is far, far lower than I ever saw on my high school and collegiate XC/track teams.
My niece and her boyfriend have owned a gym for over 10 years and they do not train like the pros and very actively dissuade anyone from trying to copy them. I’m not a CrossFit fan so we don’t discuss it much, but her boyfriend is very strict when it comes to form. The jerky style pull-ups, or whatever you call them, are not done in their gym because they lead to shoulder injuries and are not really effective.
The jerky style pull-ups, or whatever you call them, are not done in their gym because they lead to shoulder injuries and are not really effective.
Kipping. If you do them wrong, maybe they lead to shoulder injuries (like almost anything done wrong). I think they’re pretty dang safe done correctly.
But kipping is deeply ingrained as the gymnastics segment of CrossFit’s ethos of weights + endurance + gymnastics. If you don’t get good at gymnast-style kipping you’ll have zero chance at doing a ring or bar muscle up. And if you can’t do a ring or bar muscle up you’re going to get destroyed in competition.
Another risky gymnastics move is the hand-stand walk or hand-stand push-up. Also easy to hurt yourself if you don’t know what you’re doing. But just fine to skip if you don’t care about competition. About 60% of my gym just does alternate movements for any of the inverted gymnastics stuff. And the coaches will immediately cut anyone off who looks like they don’t really know what they’re doing. I’ve yet to see anyone get injured doing gymnastics, except the occassional shin-scraping on box jump misses. (box jumping being loosely in the gymnastics category as a plyometric).
The jerky style pull-ups, or whatever you call them, are not done in their gym because they lead to shoulder injuries and are not really effective.
Kipping. If you do them wrong, maybe they lead to shoulder injuries (like almost anything done wrong). I think they’re pretty dang safe done correctly.
But kipping is deeply ingrained as the gymnastics segment of CrossFit’s ethos of weights + endurance + gymnastics. If you don’t get good at gymnast-style kipping you’ll have zero chance at doing a ring or bar muscle up. And if you can’t do a ring or bar muscle up you’re going to get destroyed in competition.
Another risky gymnastics move is the hand-stand walk or hand-stand push-up. Also easy to hurt yourself if you don’t know what you’re doing. But just fine to skip if you don’t care about competition. About 60% of my gym just does alternate movements for any of the inverted gymnastics stuff. And the coaches will immediately cut anyone off who looks like they don’t really know what they’re doing. I’ve yet to see anyone get injured doing gymnastics, except the occassional shin-scraping on box jump misses. (box jumping being loosely in the gymnastics category as a plyometric).
CrossFit is not dangerous, CrossFit coached and programmed incorrectly can lead to injury. Just as with any other fitness modality and sport, this is not excuse to CrossFit.
I would argue that CrossFit as a whole has become a whole lot better the past 5-6 years, than 10 years ago. That is my personal opinion probably having been in 10-12 boxes over the past decade with a handful of friends and colleagues that run their own affiliate.
The jerky style pull-ups, or whatever you call them, are not done in their gym because they lead to shoulder injuries and are not really effective.
Kipping. If you do them wrong, maybe they lead to shoulder injuries (like almost anything done wrong). I think they’re pretty dang safe done correctly.
But kipping is deeply ingrained as the gymnastics segment of CrossFit’s ethos of weights + endurance + gymnastics. If you don’t get good at gymnast-style kipping you’ll have zero chance at doing a ring or bar muscle up. And if you can’t do a ring or bar muscle up you’re going to get destroyed in competition.
Another risky gymnastics move is the hand-stand walk or hand-stand push-up. Also easy to hurt yourself if you don’t know what you’re doing. But just fine to skip if you don’t care about competition. About 60% of my gym just does alternate movements for any of the inverted gymnastics stuff. And the coaches will immediately cut anyone off who looks like they don’t really know what they’re doing. I’ve yet to see anyone get injured doing gymnastics, except the occassional shin-scraping on box jump misses. (box jumping being loosely in the gymnastics category as a plyometric).
How many people are actually training in cross-fit for the cross-fit games?
Do you mean literally for the Games, or just any competition? The Games are like “Kona” for a triathlete. You have to qualify in the CrossFit Open, and qualifying is extremely competitive. If you make it to the Games, even as a masters athlete, you’re pretty badass. My gym has a half dozen “Games” athletes, but only maybe 2-3 seeking it this year. You have to set aside a lot of time, and it’s very difficult to maintain that level of fitness. And as noted in the OP, if you’re clean, you’re almost certainly competing against a significant number of steroid users.
But there are tons of other competitions that are much lower key. Regional stuff. Cross-town gym rivalrly meets. Or just in-gym fun competitions.
It varies a ton by gym. Some gyms are ultra-serious, and everyone is “elite.” Most are, like you said, 90+% working professionals just looking to get in shape.
Mine is like 1% “Games”, 50% who do some form of competition in the course of the year, and 50% people just looking to get a workout in.
I get that Crossfit tends to be this really positive community and such,
I think it’s worth separating out the pro scene from the local scene. I work out in a pretty serious ̶b̶o̶x̶ gym - “Games” competitors at the masters level. And I’d guess that no more than 20% of the members even know who Horvath or Tia-Toomey are.
Of course there are internet shitshows, just like the “ITA investigation” shitshow thread in this forum. And yes, doping is rampant at the Games level. (though I don’t think anyone in my gym is doping).
I’d be surprised if that was the case. I worked in gyms for many years (before my IT career). PEDs are everywhere. And gyms are rarely Ped free. Now I never worked at crossfit gyms. My time was before them, but…
I’d be surprised if that was the case. I worked in gyms for many years (before my IT career). PEDs are everywhere. And gyms are rarely Ped free. Now I never worked at crossfit gyms. My time was before them, but…
Depends heavily on gym culture. In a prior one, I had one instructor who made private overtures to me that I’m pretty sure I knew were going to lead to doping talk. I shut him down firmly, and he never broached the subject again.
But other than that I’ve had zero doping vibes. People joke about me doping because they know I’m a cyclist.
Totally different than some Gold’s Gym-type gyms I’ve been in where dudes just casually and openly talk about their “stacks” in the locker room. I totally agree with you there.
I’d be surprised if that was the case. I worked in gyms for many years (before my IT career). PEDs are everywhere. And gyms are rarely Ped free. Now I never worked at crossfit gyms. My time was before them, but…
Depends heavily on gym culture. In a prior one, I had one instructor who made private overtures to me that I’m pretty sure I knew were going to lead to doping talk. I shut him down firmly, and he never broached the subject again.
But other than that I’ve had zero doping vibes. People joke about me doping because they know I’m a cyclist.
Totally different than some Gold’s Gym-type gyms I’ve been in where dudes just casually and openly talk about their “stacks” in the locker room. I totally agree with you there.
Yeah bodybuilding gyms like Gold’s are bad. I always though to Crossfit gyms as being heavily into what we like to call beach muscles. I think the physiques many crossfit athletes achieve is amazing. But that is also very large breading grounds for HGH and other PEDs. I was never approached in all my years, but I knew people who were actively juicing throughout High School, College, and in the gyms after I graduated. At the time I was about 5’6 and 150 lbs (ripped). I never had the genetics to get really big, so maybe they just figured I wasn’t in their target market. lol. I did train with bodybuilders for years and lifted very heavy and consistently. My degree was kinesiology, so I think I was accepted because of my knowledge and background.
The jerky style pull-ups, or whatever you call them, are not done in their gym because they lead to shoulder injuries and are not really effective.
Kipping. If you do them wrong, maybe they lead to shoulder injuries (like almost anything done wrong). I think they’re pretty dang safe done correctly.
But kipping is deeply ingrained as the gymnastics segment of CrossFit’s ethos of weights + endurance + gymnastics. If you don’t get good at gymnast-style kipping you’ll have zero chance at doing a ring or bar muscle up. And if you can’t do a ring or bar muscle up you’re going to get destroyed in competition.
Another risky gymnastics move is the hand-stand walk or hand-stand push-up. Also easy to hurt yourself if you don’t know what you’re doing. But just fine to skip if you don’t care about competition. About 60% of my gym just does alternate movements for any of the inverted gymnastics stuff. And the coaches will immediately cut anyone off who looks like they don’t really know what they’re doing. I’ve yet to see anyone get injured doing gymnastics, except the occassional shin-scraping on box jump misses. (box jumping being loosely in the gymnastics category as a plyometric).
I’m always a little amused when I hear the CrossFit conversations about kipping for pull ups. I was a gymnast for almost 14 years all the way through NCAA national competition and we never used kipping for pull-ups in our strength and conditioning. A kip motion makes getting above the bar or rings easier if you do it correctly. If you’re kipping, you’re no longer really “muscling up†above the rings or bar, from a gymnastics perspective. And like a lot of motions, if you haven’t worked up to it properly, it can hit a bunch of stabilizing muscles and spinal movement that your body isn’t really ready for, in a whipping motion that can easily tweak something.
For CrossFit competitions, if that’s the movement they want, that’s fine. But from a purely strength building perspective, you’re bypassing a lot of the benefit to your back/arm muscles that would normally get worked in a more controlled motion.
t can hit a bunch of stabilizing muscles and spinal movement that your body isn’t really ready for
That’s kind of the point of those CrossFit excercises. To use the stabilizing and core muscles that often don’t get used in pure muscle movements. Functional strength, blah blah.
Of course sensible progression and having your body be ready for something is universal across every sport, and is a function of instruction quality, not the nature of the sport itself. E.g. a pure gymnast is going to mess themself up in a hurry about going through a ring progression before trying the iron cross or whatever.
As someone else noted, CrossFit had a probably-deserved instruction quality dark era. Literally anyone could call themself a CrossFit coach and start a gym. That’s somewhat cleaned up now. Surviving gyms survive by not having the professional dentists and lawyers (etc) who pay ~$200/month tear their muscles frequently.
t can hit a bunch of stabilizing muscles and spinal movement that your body isn’t really ready for
That’s kind of the point of those CrossFit excercises. To use the stabilizing and core muscles that often don’t get used in pure muscle movements. Functional strength, blah blah.
Of course sensible progression and having your body be ready for something is universal across every sport, and is a function of instruction quality, not the nature of the sport itself. E.g. a pure gymnast is going to mess themself up in a hurry about going through a ring progression before trying the iron cross or whatever.
As someone else noted, CrossFit had a probably-deserved instruction quality dark era. Literally anyone could call themself a CrossFit coach and start a gym. That’s somewhat cleaned up now. Surviving gyms survive by not having the professional dentists and lawyers (etc) who pay ~$200/month tear their muscles frequently.
For what it’s worth, Greg Glassman, co-founder of CrossFit, says that kipping is really just a by product of trying to do high volume on pull-ups, and that if they were to start from scratch, he’d probably deemphasize kipping. He’s said that when you get towards 40 pull-ups, kipping just develops naturally, and “perhaps it shouldn’t†be taught.