Cross country skiing replacing bike or run?

Triathlon Forum
1

Did some searches on cross country skiing and decided to build it into my winter routine. A few questions

I have a fixed number of hours in a week, say 12. I would normally do 6 on the bike, 4 run, 2 swim. Would you take time from bike or run hours or 50/50 ? I am a bit weaker on the bike, but marginally.

Would you say my HR profile will be closer to my run or bike profile ? Is there a LTHR test protocol for xcountry skiing ?

Do people train by HR, pace ?
Should I mimick a run plan (long, tempo, interval…) based on HR ?
Any links to newbie training plans ?

I use Raceday which I like because it provides a TSS for all 3 sports and allows “other” sports. I can use a table from Friel to do HR to TSS approximation. Is this a reasonable way to come up with a TSS approximation ?

I am excited…bring on the snow.

2

Well, if you are anything like me, don’t even try and control your HR for the first few weeks while you acclimate yourself to the new activity. It’s a brutal workout.
Personally, I would replace the cycling. It’s a lot easier for that to come back in the spring than it is for the running. At least for me.
Good luck!! I just took up skate skiing last year. It’s a tonne harder than it looks.
M~

3

Seriously, don’t get caught up with all those numbers. Ski as much as want within your time constraints - don’t worry about HR profiles, and TSS and all that stuff.

Skiing is a great cardio sport that does a fine job keeping you fit and your mind refreshed over the winter.

4

use the search here on the site. this has been debated HUNDREDS of times.

go ski.

work on technique and good “movements” for a few weeks then some easy volume for a few weeks, then you can some pace work as you like.

“help” bike or “help” run, it does neither.

“replace” bike or run…nope.

just ski and enjoy it.

…and and classic ski as much as you can stomach!:slight_smile:

5

xc skiing is god’s sport – do as much as possible.

only sport in the world where 6 year old and 60 year old norwegians can kick your ass:)

actually – swimming is another sport where that might happen.

6

I just bought some Madshus skate ski’s on the weekend, this will be my first year skating in like 15 years. I personally will reduce my trainer volume, but not running. I’m jacked to ski, and my wife is happy I found another sport to spend money on~

7

I am also interested in getting into cross-country skiing. Not to hijack this thread, but what are the costs of entry? What do you need? Where are the better retail places on the Internet to get equipment?

8

Thanks for the replies

I had used the search and yes there is a ton of info out there.

The one that struck me was dev’s comment that “skate ~ cycling, classic ~ run, both cover off your swim muscle groups.”
The other was “I equate a 2 hour run with a 3 hour XC ski with a 4 hour ride (with respect to the effort it takes me)”

I’ll search more. Sounds like a lesson or two may be a good idea. I’ll see what the shop ends up telling me.

Again thanks.

9

I am also interested in getting into cross-country skiing. Not to hijack this thread, but what are the costs of entry? What do you need? Where are the better retail places on the Internet to get equipment?

I spent a little more then I wanted, but you should be able to get into XC for about $300-400, I spent about $700 canadian for Alpina boots, Madshus skiis and poles and Rottefella bindings.

10

Until you develop the basic technique you won’t be able to get a great workout from it. So just be prepared at first to flounder around without a direct workout replacement. it’s worth it though.

I have known both great runners and great cyclists who do only xc skiing through the winter and keep all their fitness until Spring (and then some) with only a week or so to acclimate the specific muscles again.

11

The one that struck me was dev’s comment that “skate ~ cycling, classic ~ run, both cover off your swim muscle groups.”

Don’t read too much into this and don’t OVER-think the skiing - just get out there and do it. It does have benefits but they are really hard to quantify.

12

just get out there and do it. It does have benefits but they are really hard to quantify.

Understood. If only there were more hours in a week. Unfortunately something has to give, so just trying to figure out how to optimize time. I have what is an “A” race to me in May so part of me says just stick to what’s known to work.

Mt-Royal in Montreal, Gatineau Park in Ottawa or the trainer…wow, tough decisions.

Didn’t you post something about skiing and then jumping into 3 hour rides in April with little effort ?

I also saw your post on scheduling A races in April :slight_smile:

13

Did some searches on cross country skiing and decided to build it into my winter routine. A few questions

I have a fixed number of hours in a week, say 12. I would normally do 6 on the bike, 4 run, 2 swim. Would you take time from bike or run hours or 50/50 ? I am a bit weaker on the bike, but marginally.

If you skate, take it from your bike time.ex.do 3h of xc skiing, and 2h of cycling.if you do classic, you have to take time from your run and swim.
One smart workout if you want to work on your bike legs, try skating without poles.great leg workout, and it gives your arms a rest so you can still do quality swim training between skiing.

Would you say my HR profile will be closer to my run or bike profile ? Is there a LTHR test protocol for xcountry skiing ?

Closer to run, definitely.because you use your upper body as well, oxygen consumption is from time to time even bigger than running.xc skiiers have huge vo2 max readings.

Do people train by HR, pace ?

By HR, for sure.the effort required depends so much on the ski waxing, weather, meaning temperature, fresh/old/icy snow, hilly/flat course, etc.

Should I mimick a run plan (long, tempo, interval…) based on HR ?

Basically, yes. Actually xc skiing is different in the sense you can’t keep a steady HR all the time.if your HR on a long run is 140-145, expect it to peak to 160 skiing while ascending hills, then go down to 130 descending hills.avg HR is still about the same.

Any links to newbie training plans ?

I use Raceday which I like because it provides a TSS for all 3 sports and allows “other” sports. I can use a table from Friel to do HR to TSS approximation. Is this a reasonable way to come up with a TSS approximation ?

I am excited…bring on the snow.

14

Rent at a ski center first. Trail pass, rental could be $15-$45 depending on where you go. I suggest a lesson the first time too.

A decent “athletic set-up” similar to, say, a Shimano 105 bike, would be about $500-$700. And will last for many years.

15

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/haussler-prepares-for-classics-with-garmin-cervelo

Haussler is doing it…he rides pretty damn fast.

Just sayin’

16

Don’t do it. Stay bolted to the trainer and listen to the ST specificity mafia.

Not everyone here is a pro triathlete or a Kona qualifier age grouper who needs to optimize every second around performane (as if that is the only reason for doing these sports…).

Just go ski and have fun. Keep doing some running cause you can’t ski every day…you’ll be set come tri season and mentally refreshed. Don’t over think it.

17

I usually give up some of the indoor biking in exchange for skiing, but that is because I often do a marathon in May.

I would recommend doing the Gatineau Loppet in February if you are considering it. Ton of people, decent expo, and lots for family to do in Ottawa during Winterlude.

I personally these days don’t take out a GPS or anything when skiing and just go out and have a great time and listen to my body.

Have fun.

18

**Didn’t you post something about skiing and then jumping into 3 hour rides in April with little effort ? **

Yes. If you approach the winter in the right way, this is doable. That means lot’s of skiing - 2 to 4 times/week. Maybe even a week away at a ski “camp” and just skiing for the whole week 3 - 4 hrs/day. Maybe doing some loppets and races and hitting the indoor trainer a couple of times a week and I mean really hitting it hard. It means throwing a bunch of stuff out the window, but it does work!

I also saw your post on scheduling A races in April

For people who live in places that get a real winter, I don’t know why those people put “A” races in April or May. Seems silly to me. But again, I am old school and used to a natural ebb and flow to the training year based on the seasons and not against them. These days it seems everyone wants to turn the training year upside down! I will ask those same people how they are doing 10 - 15 years from now, . . . if they are still in the sport!!

19

My running shoes go in the closet until spring once the x-country skis come out. I still reluctantly ride the trainer indoors in winter on days when I can’t be outside skiing.

20

XC skiing is the perfect endurance sport. It’s quadripedal like swimming and rowing but the output and muscle recruitment vary much more than the other two due to different technique on climbs, flats and descents. Dev is right in that classic uses more of the running muscles and skating more of the cycling muscles. Both use similar UE muscles to swimming. The abs are also used for the initial poling action.
Best advice, go get a classic lesson first, spend a couple of days doing classic then take a skate lesson. I only classic on really cold days (the wax works best for classic when it’s below -18 C). Buy skate stuff for training first.
Then just ski. Don’t worry about HR other than to avoid “blowing a gasket” on hard uphills.
Aim for two to three hour ski’s three times a week with maybe one shorter interval session of a hour per week.

Good luck