For those who take creatine for WEIGHT TRAINING, do you take it just on weight training days or take it traditionally everyday?
how about all those people racing long distance over 200 lbs posting top splits? somebody like ain alar juhanson maybe?
i don’t think body weight or geometries have anything to do with it, either you put in the time and effort or you don’t, i race with guys who are 200 lbs putting out 56 minute sprints… I weigh 210 lbs and id like to think of myself as a top contender in my AG.
It’s all about how much you train. I have friends who are football players who’s coaches make them run half marathons, they’re all over 200 pounds and they can all run 1:20ish.
Imagine what you and they could do if they were 30 lbs lighter, Ted.
but the thing is i could never be 30 pounds lighter
I would have to lose muscle mass to lose that 30 pounds.
ok so why don’t we just agree on things could work if the end result leaves you well proportioned?
I take it every day for about 3 weeks then take a week off.
keep in mind, you are giving away 30lbs of muscle not 30lbs of fat.
Just a rough example:
Ford Focus is lighter that Ferrari 
“I would have to lose muscle mass to lose that 30 pounds.”
Yes…you would lose muscle mass…muscle mass that is not materially contributing to your forward motion.
Sure…R10C might lose interest in your body…but you’d gain speed…especially on any course that isn’t dead flat.
Trust me…I’ve been 15 lbs heavier than I am now…at the same bf %…after a serious spell of lifting…the mass gets in your way.
That’s a poor analogy.
A Ferrari’s power to curb weight ratio is orders of magnitude higher than the Focus.
The amount of power someone like Ted would lose by giving up cosmetic bulk would be far offset by the improvement in power-to-weight ratio…
A little math…let’s assume just for discussion and because it’s an easy number to work with…that Ted’s FTP is 300 watts…at 210 lbs(95.25 kg) that gives him a power to weight ratio of 3.14. , which is rather pedestrian on Coggan’s power profiling chart. At 180 lbs (81.65 kg)…he would have a power to weight ratio of 3.67…moving him up an entire level. Conversely…he would have to improve his power to 350W for FTP to move up to that same level while still weighing 210 lbs. Let’s say he loses 20 W from FTP while losing that 30lbs…he’s still got a huge edge in performance with a power-to-weight ratio of 3.42. Unless we’re at IMFL…the guy at 180 with 280W FTP wins the race every time.
Some of you will point out that cycling on flat terrain would potentially negate some of that advantage…true (as I’ve noted)…though you can’t discount the reduced frontal area coming with that reduction in bulk…but…anyway…let’s look at running, where there is a large upward vector, even among the most efficient run strides…you’re moving that extra 30lbs upward many thousands of times, even if you aren’t running uphill…if you think that won’t affect performance, I’ve got some swampland to sell you
There is a reason Merckx told Indurain to lose 5 kilos…
I would have to lose muscle mass to lose that 30 pounds."
Yes…you would lose muscle mass…muscle mass that is not materially contributing to your forward motion.
Sure…R10C might lose interest in your body…but you’d gain speed…especially on any course that isn’t dead flat.
Trust me…I’ve been 15 lbs heavier than I am now…at the same bf %…after a serious spell of lifting…the mass gets in your way.
Totally agreed…I was the same… now 15 lbs lighter I am way faster and have a better weight to power ratio.
However read my signature which is meant to be sarcastic…
i have used it for weight training for 3 months and I am back on it again. I take it only on days when i work out; right after my workout then six hours later. i am begining to use it after long spins and runs to help with recovery. i take cells mass bsn
I guess the big question is: Are you a weight-lifter (trying to gain size & strength) or are you an endurance athlete that also lifts?
If you are the weight-lifter I’d say follow a loading phase of 4-6 days where you take it twice per day (don’t remember dose-go to a lifters board), then follow a maint. phase where you only take it once/day for a few weeks. I used it in my lifting days and found that I felt a bit stronger. I also found that it made me retain more water making my muscles kind of puffy. Most of the size gains were an illusion and went away when I stopped using the stuff, I never really decided if it was worth it although I felt like it was at the time.
If you’re an endurance athlete, I can see no reason to spend the money on Creatine. Of course, I also believe that weight training is highly overrated for endurance athletes unless you’re older and it’s something you do in the off-season to help your bone density or something.
but the thing is i could never be 30 pounds lighter
I would have to lose muscle mass to lose that 30 pounds.
I would agree with this to a point. Since Ted’s pics have been plastered all over here, we know he isn’t overweight, and doesn’t necessarly need to shed body fat. However, for the person who needs to lose body fat, weight training (and creatine) can speed up the process. I wouldn’t recommend heavy strenghth training in-season, as it can hinder endurance training, particularly for long course events. I am not an expert on this, and am several years out from my exercise science degree, however, to my understanding creatine is not only used to “puff up” the muscles, but it improves power for a given amount of time after exertion (better recovery) allowing one to improve strength gains, basically improving the body’s ability to perform work. It also increases the availability of cellular energy during moments of greatest energy demand.
If your goal is to build muscle tissue-know that the TYPE of muscle fiber you’re building through weight training, Type II (are you doing low reps with 10 minutes between sets?) may hinder long distance performance. However, if you’re looking to build muscle tissue, creatine will definitely help you…it’s not just water weight. I do, however, agree with previous posters that any additional body weight in kilos probaby won’t help you too much, particularly if it’s a quick gain.
That being said, I am a girl ,and personally, weight training is really critical for me to keep my body fat percentage down. (It doesn’t hurt that I love to do it, which probably skews my opinion on it) If I rely strictly on cardio-even with a lot of endurance training, I find that my total body percentage creeps up (NOT good when one is half naked in spandex at any given event…I’m super vain, not afraid to admit it). So, even though strength training may not work for everyone I think it’s important not only for injury prevention and photogenic opportunity, but also for keeping body fat percentage low enough to improve performance.
I copied this from a website, but it makes sense:
" Explosive movements (resistance exercise) recruit fast (type II) muscle fibers. In essence, creatine supplementation feeds fast muscle fibers, increasing power output. On the other hand, endurance exercise is mediated by slow muscle fibers (type I), which are relatively insensitive to creatine supplementation. Another difference is that fast muscle fibers require less oxygen to generate force, whereas slow muscle fibers rely heavily of oxidative metabolism to produce slow (and much less powerful) movements. It should now make sense why marathon performance is relatively unaffected by creatine supplementation, whereas sprint performance is appreciably enhanced".
One of the major mitigating influences of creatine supplementation over endurance performance is the gain in body mass that often accompanies creatine supplementation, a process known as muscle volumizing. It is easy to imagine how the addition of just a few extra kilos might hamper your performance while running a marathon. By contrast, an increase in body mass might be a desired outcome, or an accepted tradeoff, of supplementation for other types of athlete. Strength athletes and bodybuilders may view an increase body mass as an added benefit of creatine supplementation, whereas distance runners and endurance athletes may wish to avoid an increase in body mass for fear of it impeding their performance in their respective events.
Also, recall that cell volumizing is the process whereby creatine induces muscle to take up fluids from their surroundings. If compensated for with adequate fluid intake, however, cell volumization is relatively harmless. On the other hand, large uncompensated shifts in body water might result in dehydration, hypertension and faulty thermoregulation, particularly if exercising in hot and humid conditions.
I’ve never used it, but read of many instances of cramping during long endurance activities while on creatine. Any others know of this?
cramping, shmamping.
It is or would be hard to test whether it leads to cramping versus all the other factors involved with cramping. I’ve used it on and off for almost 10 years now and I’ve never cramped when I’ve been using it. I think the whole cramping issue is more folk lore that football announcers used as an excuse or generalization for athletes who had muscle issues but blamed it on creatine.
I had to bulk up recently and it did not effect my 50-60 weekly average running mileage.
I’ve never used it, but read of many instances of cramping during long endurance activities while on creatine. Any others know of this?
Cramping = anecdotal reports not born out by controlled studies.
You’re supposed to take creatine every day - ~3g or so. You can load, or you can simply take it for a month - either way gets you to the same steady-state levels in the blood. The loading phase just gets you there quicker (but it’s more inconvenient to some).
You probably dont need creatine (or lifting for that matter) it at all for endurance sports. I’ve used it off and on, but mainly because as a naturally skinny guy, I personally found it more valuable to look a little more muscular than it was to take a minute or whatever off a triathlon. YMMV of course.
“nce Ted’s pics have been plastered all over here, we know he isn’t overweight, and doesn’t necessarly need to shed body fat.”
Who’s talking about bodyfat? The guy has cosmetic lean mass that is materially affecting his ability to be faster. Ted looks great (reminds me of myself at 15-20lbs heavier than my current 160). All I’m saying is that if he wants to be as fast as he could be…he should lose the “cosmetic” muscle. And he COULD lose 30 lbs…if he wanted to. It’s tough…but achievable. I’m sure he’s comfortable with his decisions though.
More on topic…show me a study where creatine significantly enhances endurance performance… I’ve taken it before…I know what it does for a gym rat…it’s one of the very few supplements worth buying…
I agree with you completely. I was just using him as an example. Clearly I followed that up by saying strength training does add weight which is detrimental for long distance performance (generally). I should have been more clear-IMO strength training for some athletes actually allows them to shed body fat more efficiently, thus making them more efficient moving the weight that they do have (assuming there is both a small gain and a small loss of body weight). Again, I am not a man, and I am speaking in part from my own experience. Short of steroids/testosterone, any gain in muscle that I make is likely to be fairly small, but the payoffs in basal calorie burn are huge.
and legal in WADA’s books.