I decided to take this year off from IM training to focus on getting faster at running.
So I am following a finish at 3:30 marathon plan in preparation for Philly in November.
Todays workout called for a 2 mile WU then 5-6 yasso 800’s at 3:30, then 2 miles easy
I was only able to finish 3 of them before i was smoked and unable to do the rest.
Should i continue at this pace with my 800’s and allow myself to adapt or slow the pace enough to be able to finish them all?
all other workouts (long runs, hill repeats, etc…) i can handle just fine
I think the point of Yasso 800’s is that generally, if you intend to run 26.2 at a steady 8:00/mile pace (3:30), you OUGHT to be able to run a bunch of 800 repeats at 7:00/mile pace.
That’s the theory, however, a multitude of factors can change whether or not it’s going to work out: previous training load, fatigue, the way you feel on the day, et cetera. They’re not gospel, just a handy rule of thumb for the kind of speed you ought to possess.
Try it again next week, maybe you’re just having an off day. Maybe try the 800s at 3:40 next time and if that’s doable, do that for a couple weeks and then revisit the 3:30s.
Funny enough my 800’s are the exact same as yours (3:30). I always thought they were comically easy, but my open marathon time is complete shit (3:55). As others have said, it’s a lot more complicated than just how many 800’s you can do in a row at a certain pace.
It looks like you are doing a common mistake with your YASSO, it is that you are targeting the pace and not the time for your 800m reps:
“Named after Runner’s World’s Bart Yasso, Yasso 800s are a marathon predictor workout. You run repetitions of 800 meters in the minutes and seconds of your goal marathon hours and minutes.”
So if your target at the marathon is 3h30, you need to do your 800 meters in 3 minutes and 30 seconds, NOT at 3:30 pace.
That means you should target your 800 meters at a pace of 4:23 for a kilometer, that way you will achieve your 800 meter in 3:30.
I’d be inclined to try to hold pace for as many repeats as you can, and hope to adapt.
If you can’t complete the set of 10 repeats on the schedule/program, it would probably be a good idea to adapt your goal marathon time…
Are you doing equal rest (complete walk for 3:30)?
I was able to do them in 3:10 when training for a 3:10:00, first time I did them with full rest, then my next marathon I did them as cruise intervals with recovery pace rest, but 6 intervals instead of 8. I don’t really know if/why it is an accurate predictor, but it helped with confidence.
However, in the middle of marathon training, you might not be recovered enough from your last workout to complete them. There are a lot of variables when you are constantly in a state of being beaten down by marathon training, and this is harder than a normal speed session during a marathon build.
Besides the Yasso 800s, what other sources of marathon predictors have you used? McMillan running calculator was pretty spot on for me, using other race distances as a gauge. If you can run a 10 miler or half marathon race soon, that would be a much better predictor (also factor in elevation profiles and altitude).
Are you doing equal rest (complete walk for 3:30)?
I was able to do them in 3:10 when training for a 3:10:00, first time I did them with full rest, then my next marathon I did them as cruise intervals with recovery pace rest, but 6 intervals instead of 8. I don’t really know if/why it is an accurate predictor, but it helped with confidence.
However, in the middle of marathon training, you might not be recovered enough from your last workout to complete them. There are a lot of variables when you are constantly in a state of being beaten down by marathon training, and this is harder than a normal speed session during a marathon build.
So I do speed work once a week, preparing for Chicago, rotating 400’s and 800’s. I wasn’t doing Yasso’s but I find myself doing the 800’s usually around 3:12, and then I do 3:00 rest at 9:30-10:30 pace. Does that mean I’d have a realistic shot at a 3:12 marathon?? I don’t need to go that fast, my goal was actually 3:20.
Are you doing equal rest (complete walk for 3:30)?
I was able to do them in 3:10 when training for a 3:10:00, first time I did them with full rest, then my next marathon I did them as cruise intervals with recovery pace rest, but 6 intervals instead of 8. I don’t really know if/why it is an accurate predictor, but it helped with confidence.
However, in the middle of marathon training, you might not be recovered enough from your last workout to complete them. There are a lot of variables when you are constantly in a state of being beaten down by marathon training, and this is harder than a normal speed session during a marathon build.
So I do speed work once a week, preparing for Chicago, rotating 400’s and 800’s. I wasn’t doing Yasso’s but I find myself doing the 800’s usually around 3:12, and then I do 3:00 rest at 9:30-10:30 pace. Does that mean I’d have a realistic shot at a 3:12 marathon?? I don’t need to go that fast, my goal was actually 3:20.
Sorry, didn’t mean to steal the thread…
Maybe? I just don’t think the Yasso thing is that accurate. It maybe tells you you have the speed to handle that pace but I think a tune-up half marathon, or even a recent 10k race result would tell you a lot more if you plug the time in to McMillan.
The Yasso 800s don’t tell you what you can do. And they are not particularly good training either (too short/ too much rest).
What Yasso 800s do show - is what you CANNOT do.
If you CANNOT run 8 x 800 in 2:50-
you CANNOT run a 2:50 marathon.
If you CANNOT run 8 X 800 in 3:15 - you CANNOT run a 3:15 marathon.