Have been having pain on the inside and back of my right knee. Went to the doctor who had an x-ray and mri done and there was fluid on the inside of the knee and I was diagnosed with bursitis. Doctor thought I could keep running with the injury and I should heal on my own and be good to go with some anti-inflammatories. Have been attending PT as prescribed by doctor to strengthen my right hip because my left hip is stronger from years of being a left handed gymnast and have been pretty diligent about doing the exercises and stretching. Problem is the knee isn’t getting better and the left knee is starting to hurt in the same place. About the time when the injury started was when I switched over to doing a lot of my running inside on the treadmill (I’m a cold wimp and I live in Chicago which isn’t the ideal locale for someone who hates the cold). Is it possible the treadmill is to blame for my knee pain or is it more likely I just have a general running injury? I’m going back to the doctor next week but am currently frustrated that I’m not seeing any improvement.
make sure you always have the incline on the treadmill set to +1.5 or thereabouts when running. This will more accurately duplicate running on the ground and will help prevent your leading leg from completely extending, which causes the force of the treadmill to jam against your locked knees. Look down occasionally to make sure your foot is landing under, not in front of, your body. Hope this can help.
Yes!
I’m saying this from my own personal expirience…
Last year, we got a good amount of snow… so on this one winter day, I though "hey… I’m go use the treadmill for a 50 minute run…
I felt fine after, but all of a sudden 2-3 day later I started for feel something in my knee… My next run, I felt great… at mile 2, PAIN. I stopped… stretched… kept running… 500 yrds later, PAIN.
Long story short, Doc (Excel Multisports Therapy) said I had strained my PCL. The (unnaturally fast) motion on the treadmill was the claimed cause…
I’ve come to learn there are 3 types of people…
- Who run perfectly and it dosn’t matter where or when you run…
- Those like me who won’t ever run on one of those things again…
- Those who love them.
You might by number 2.
Thanks, this sounds like a really logical cause of the pain.
Your overall point may be valid, but the treadmill does not have an unnaturally fast motion. It’s the exact same speed (if the thing is working right) as you moving over pavement. All you’re changing with a treadmill in respect to speed is which thing is in motion. Normal running leaves the ground still so you gotta move, with a treadmill you switch. So 10mph outside is the same speed as 10mph on a treadmill. It’s not the same feeling since the ground doesn’t give like a treadmill and you have no wind resistance on a treadmill, but there is no unnaturally fast portion of it, unless you’re just pushing the speed on the treadmill.
personally, i don’t see how a treadmill could be the cause of your problem.
most running injuries are soft tissue problems, due to inflexibility/muscluar imbalance.
yoga has fixed so many problems for me…i don’t think i’d be running had my PT not insisted upon my doing it.
it is critical to find the best PT you can. many aren’t worth a dime–but if you can find someone truly passionate about their job, you will get over your injury. i struggled with crappy PT for years, and basically gave up on running.
marisol may know of someone who is a very good ART practioner in your area. she is the one who was instrumental in helping me find the right PT/get the right care.
I’m guessing it’s something in your knee that is causing your knee pain. Sorry…couldn’t resist.
Could be.
I run a lot on the treadmill, specially for intervals so I can control better the workout. Never had problems in 2 years until december when my mind kind of wandered and my knees started to get tight and locked and I hit a step and felt awkward right after. I had discomfort while running and even cycling for about 3 weeks but I took it slow and streched a lot and it has mostly gone away, it probably still tender but not even close to the first couple of weeks.
I am always form concious but now I am even more aware of it while running on the treadmill. Besides that particular incident, never sensed anything negative from treadmill running. I always have the incline at 2, unless doing hills and the goes up but never less than that.
Peace
You guys are WRONG about a treadmill being the exact same thing as running outdoors. While in theory when running fast you move over the ground at 10 mph with the ground fixed outdoors, while on the treadmill, you are stationary with the ground moving under you at 10 mph.
In reality this does not happen. What really happens outdoors is a series of accelerations and decelerations. Don’t believe me…then go in to a sprint and then start hopping like a triple jumper. No problem outdoor. Get on the treadmill at 10 mph and try to even hop one step. You’ll land flat on your face (or close to it). The treadmill grabs your foot and throws if back before you can properly decelerate and then explode with an accelration. Outdoors is a series of accelerations and decelerations of the moving frame (you). On a treadmill, you are stationary, while the frame of reference moves at constant speed. This is why there are some weird forces on the lower knee in treadmill running that do not happen running outdoors.
So as Andrew said, the treadmill can cause some lower knee pain. I experience this on a treadmill, from time to time when running on zero percent grade really fast, when my leg speed is not in synch with the treadmills constant speed. The pain does not happen outdoors on on an incline (where the knee is never closer to being “locked”).
Running on a treadmill at 0% grade would be similar to running outdoors at a slightly negative grade. The treadmill will sag as you land on it towards the front and then have recovered by the time you’re at the back of your step. So it’s not fair to compare that to outdoor running.
Your hopping example is flawed, as long as I’m not running at full speed, I can do exact what you described on a treadmill. If I’m running outdoors at full speed I can’t do a triple hop either, I have to slow a bit to get the extra bend in the leg and allow my muscles to fire off.
If you run on a treadmill at a 1-2% grade it will be different, but I really think you’ll find it’s not detrimental. In fact I’ll go as far as to argue that for most it’s actually better. Your joints take less immediate shock, you can feel what it is like to truly keep a constant pace, you can often look in a mirror to see if your running as well as you think you are, etc. I pound out some pretty long runs on treadmill and the other benefit is the mind numbing nature of those runs makes every race and outdoor run seem like heaven on earth. Not to mention it makes getting to water on long runs much easier.
Andrew, my example is a bit extreme, but not flawed. It explains what really happens outdoors versus treadmill. And to your point, a triple jumper IS at full speed when he hits the take off point so it is possible to do that outdoors. Regardless, when you run fast there is an element of loading and unloading the quad that does not happen well on treadmill. Setting the grade to 2% or greater helps the problem as you effectively have an opportunity to do a “bent leg” load of the quad before the treadmill throws it back. You tend to run “into the belt”, then there is an instant of loading followed by the belt throwing your foot backwards (unload). But at the same time you do have to push off a bit and fight gravity (due to grade…similar to running outdoors). At zero percent, you can do NOTHING and your leg will fly backwards. In theory outdoors you can simply “fall forward” with zero push off too. This works at slow speed, but not that well at fast speeds (which is why our calves get more sore sprinting).
So to your point assuming ~ 90 RPM cadence in both slow and high speed running…at slow speeds running on treadmill and outdoors is not that much different as it is easier to run close to constant speed within each stride as the peak forces are low for a short stride length. When you run fast, it is harder to run at constant speed, because the application of force to have a longer stride length results in a greater element of acceleration and deceleration.
I have been doing treadmill running with no incline for months. Then yesterday I decided to change the incline to .5%. It made a HUGE difference in making it feel more natural. I could actually run faster as it was more like my natural stride. I agree that adding an incline will definitely make the treadmill running easier on your knees. My coach actually recommended an incline of 1% for that purpose. (I’m just not that good at following directions yet…stubborn I guess.)
You might be right, I normally don’t run faster than 10-11mph on a treadmill so maybe the effect really shows up at higher speed. I wish I was running at much higher speeds.
I dreamed the other night that I could still do a 15 min 5K…sadly those days are gone for now. I’d actually be interested to know if anyone whose around 175 can run a sub 15 min 5K. I know that’s not that fast as far as cross country times go, but when I ran CC I was only 120-125, I don’t think I knew a single guy over 135 or so who was fast.
I should start a thread for that actually.
You’re halfway to convincing me!
Isn’t it true though that you constantly accelerate and decelarate on a treadmill too - you just need a longer treadmill to do big explosive jumps because you’d be in contact with the ‘ground’ for longer and would be moved backwards? You don’t run at a constant speed on a treadmill either but are always moving back or forward relative to the tread depending on where in your stride you are? As far as I can see Treadmills don’t grab your foot and ‘throw it’ anymore than the ground would at the same relative speed - your only obstacle to decelerating to the ground/tread is how much time you have before you fall off the back.
I’ve done a lot of training on treadmills so maybe I’m biased but I just don’t get the physics of this argument - please convince me!
I also know FWIW that people advocate a 1% to 1.5% grade to replicate wind but I’d rather run on the flat and not get used to a different biomechanics knowing that I may be slightly slower outside.
Andrew…I think it partially depends on how robust your knee joint is and how well it takes the difference. My issues will even show up at 9 mph on a treadmill, while years ago, I could run at 12 mph on fast treadmill treadmill without feeling anything in my lower knee. Today, I can run at 11 mph outside and feel no knee issues (just sucking wind…).
I think to some extent we are both saying the same thing. If you can run close to constant speed with minimum accceleration and deceleration, there is no difference.
Another place where you can see a big difference is running uphill at say 8 mph on a 10% grade. It just feels weird. It is not like running uphill on a steep hill at 7:3- mile pace (8 mph)…you just can’t preload the leg properly like outdoors.
Frankly, the treadmill is a nice tool from time to time, but realistically humans evolved to run on solid ground, not over a moving belt. So I only use the treadmill when it is way more convenient.
Dev, you are treading (pun intended but maybe a poor one) in dangerous territory here. I stated a few weeks ago that I actually got a sprained ankle from running 12mph on a treadmill for intervals and was basically told that I didn’t know jack about what I was talking about (except that I know that I ran a hard workout on a treadmill and ended up with a swollen messed up ankle … must not have been any relationship to the two). There are a lot of people here that believe that treadmills are sacred 
Your analogy about the hopping was the point that I was trying to make the last time this discussion came up.