Hi there
I have a technical question that has been bothering me for months and would be very grateful for anyone’s contribution.
The question is regarding the coordination of catch and kick whilst swimming. A lot of youtube videos (e.g. Effortless Swimming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwtVsTUAyQE&list=PLQKKI9DQvPLfw8_XKuv8csMhltFX8dtIc&index=13) say that you should kick with the same leg as the arm that is initiating the catch - so left arm catch with downward kick with left leg.
However, a left arm catch will send your body rotating clockwise (for an observer facing the swimmer), whereas a downward left leg kick (and upward right leg kick) will surely make you rotate anti clockwise. That seems very counterintuitive to me, I would have thought a kick with the opposite leg would make more sense otherwise your body is kind of twisting in opposite directions?
Many thanks all!
I think it I thought about that degree of coordination, I’d sink
.
What I was told that the same leg downkick be timed with same arm finish while opposite arm is overhead and you are lying on opposite arm side
here is a good demo from Ledecky. That downkick ends up looking like a side kick, but it is a downkick relative to orientation of the spine not the water level of the pool)
You want to think of it exactly like the cross-connection in the run - opposite arm to opposite leg.
If you want to a drill to work on kick/pull timing, I just posted a video…
Any questions, let me know.
Tim
Video
So are you saying left arm pull right leg kick?
The drill that’s helped me understand this is putting paddle in one hand and fin on opposite foot. I think I learned this from swim smooth.
Yes
.
Yes
Why do you feel the opposite should be used? Both my coach and Brenton say the opposite to you, in the right hand catch right leg kick. Is there a right or wrong or just different ways to skin a cat?
Even in the video you’re showing that’s what’s being demonstrated.
Tim
Even in the video you’re showing that’s what’s being demonstrated.
Tim
We must be watching different videos? Mack Hortens left leg does nothing from the time his right hand initiates the catch through to the pull, his right leg however kicks down just as he started to set up his right arm catch/pull? Brenton even says to codinate the downward kick as you pull?
I’m looking at the thumbnail of the video. It’s downbeat of his left kick when he is intiating the catch on his right.
Yes
Wait I’m so confused lol
You are saying yes to what?
For 2 beat kick
Left arm left correct?
Can you please link the video you just put up showing 2 beat kick
Thank you
Maybe try watching the video? You and Brenton definitely have different takes on the timing, like I said Brenton says to initiate the downward kick of the arm (same side) as you start the pull…
Like I said, maybe there isn’t a right or wrong, was just interested in the differing philosophys.
Yes
Wait I’m so confused lol
You are saying yes to what?
For 2 beat kick
Left arm left leg correct?
Right arm right leg
Can you please link the video you just put up showing 2 beat kick
Thank you
Yes
Wait I’m so confused lol
You are saying yes to what?
For 2 beat kick
Left arm left correct?
Can you please link the video you just put up showing 2 beat kick
Thank you
He is saying left leg kick right arm pull, even though OP and my links suggest the opposite. Seems he can’t be bothered watching the video though to see a different opinion…
Yes
Why do you feel the opposite should be used? Both my coach and Brenton say the opposite to you, in the right hand catch right leg kick. Is there a right or wrong or just different ways to skin a cat?
https://youtu.be/…?si=Fs6-TuKlsyVb7uEr
Maybe some semantics here as people may be using catch and pull interchangeably, Maybe we say catch and finish. If you say for catch on right arm is left leg downkick (like in the video) and then you have finish with right arm with right leg downkick (Ledecky image above) then we are saying the same thing. This would be in a two beat kick mode. In 6 beat you’d have two small kicks in between right?
So “kick in” is with opposite leg to arm going in, “kick out” is same side leg as hand coming out
Pull and kick at the same time on the same side
https://youtu.be/U5Y3282w4tM?si=80OHnO1gShlWfwBR
Hi there
I have a technical question that has been bothering me for months and would be very grateful for anyone’s contribution.
The question is regarding the coordination of catch and kick whilst swimming. A lot of youtube videos (e.g. Effortless Swimming: https://www.youtube.com/...FX8dtIc&index=13) say that you should kick with the same leg as the arm that is initiating the catch - so left arm catch with downward kick with left leg.
However, a left arm catch will send your body rotating clockwise (for an observer facing the swimmer), whereas a downward left leg kick (and upward right leg kick) will surely make you rotate anti clockwise. That seems very counterintuitive to me, I would have thought a kick with the opposite leg would make more sense otherwise your body is kind of twisting in opposite directions?
Many thanks all!
You can see here
Big difference between the catch and the pull
When your Right hand is entering the water (catch) the left arm is pulling and the keft leg is kicking
Not sure why you are getting upset with Tim
Look at what Engineer says in this thread. The same as you are
https://forum.slowtwitch.com/…_kick_P8116411/?t=…
Yes
Wait I’m so confused lol
You are saying yes to what?
For 2 beat kick
Left arm left correct?
Can you please link the video you just put up showing 2 beat kick
Thank you
He is saying left leg kick right arm pull, even though OP and my links suggest the opposite. Seems he can’t be bothered watching the video though to see a different opinion…
You are focusing on the pull, not the hand entry. Mack has a catch up stroke so you cannot get a sense of his timing by looking at the pull. His entry and kick are timed perfectly to opposite sides.
I find some of these posts really confusing.
Just watch Mack swim and it should be clear the timing. F-ing hell that dude Mack can swim.
What I do is a two beat kick and the way I think of it is that when I have put my left hand in the water and then are just about to pull through, I start my left leg kicking. When my right arm starts to pull through I do my right kick.
I think you can swim pretty decently with just focussing on that.
My left leg kick is bigger than my right leg kick.
You also watch Romanchuk swim and while he swims with a 6 beat kick, you can definitely see that he starts the whole thing off with a big initiation kick on his left leg. And that is the same as what a 2 beat kicker does, but except he has the smaller little kicks in between.
It has taken me a very long time to be able to figure out how I use my hips and other leg (on the non pulling side) to get more power and balance. So now what I do is when I do my left leg kick my right foot comes up just behind my left foot and touches the heel, so I can feel my right heel float on the surface. When I do my right leg kick I push my left leg upwards, so it floats to the surface and if I am swimming well I can just feel it break the surface.
But I still swim with a 2 beat kick.
I am feeling a tension in my left hamstring and but (on the non kicking leg when I am trying to bring my left leg up)
But using hips, but and other leg is a much more difficult skill. I already had a good baseline level before I even started to think or feel these extra things. I dare say that is part of the ‘coordinated’ or whole of core feeling that SnappingT has written posts about.
I used to just swim thinking only of left arm left leg kick (hard) right arm right leg kick (less hard). Now when I swim I am thinking of my hips rotating more and pushing the heel up to the surface on the off leg and causing tension on my hips and hamstrings.
I have written a longer post just to give some people some idea of what I have noticed in change in sensation and feeling as I have gotten better at my technique.
It should not feel like you are fighting it or you are off balance. It should feel very balanced and smooth.