Also, related to the front page article comment about ‘first ever aero tire’, there used to be a Bontrager aero tire. It’s gimmick was that it filled or smoothed out the gap between the wheel and the tire.
someone on the call said first one ever,
someone else said first one that ever worked.
Love this topic of tire+wheel interaction!
I tested both the bontrager aero wing and the zipp tangente in the tunnel on a 3-spoke and a zipp 1080 back in 2009 (I had to look that up - haha). They were faster than a veloflex record, but it’s really tough to beat a narrow, well-shaped tire like the reference tire I was using at the time (conti ultra2000).
The article confirms it was ridden by McNulty at US pro Nats.
There is an Enve prototype, ridden at US Nats. But I thought the Giro was still on the aerocoach wheel? https://www.cyclingweekly.com/...l-victory-on-stage-7
Is there any pic of that Enve wheel on a ‘UCI equipment’ race? (I guess we’ll see tomorrow)
There is a new EC article on Pog’s TT bike here. Not raced yet at the TdF, but the article leads one believe it’s very close to what Pog’s race day bike will be. It does show the new very-likely-Enve wheel, which per MTM, is at first glance similar to the Titan, but on second look, has some distinct differences.
The tires may not be the race day ones. A regular 5000S TR on the rear, and not Aero 111 on the front - “just” the 5000S TT.
Sadly no indication of tire width from what I can tell on those pictures. But I’d speculate there’s some probability that Enve has started aero optimizing around 28mm instead of 25mm. Also some probability they haven’t. Given this new front wheel may be considered a niche specialty wheel - like the HED Jet 180. Maybe from Enve being butthurt that Pog was running Aerocoach front and rear. Still Aerocoach rear in the above article.
Edit: The rest of the stuff is kind of neat. That bike is seriously TT-nerded out. Also weight-weenied out with the Darimo, Carbon-Ti stuff, etc.
The tires may not be the race day ones. A regular 5000S TR on the rear, and not Aero 111 on the front - “just” the 5000S TT.
Sadly no indication of tire width from what I can tell on those pictures. But I’d speculate there’s some probability that Enve has started aero optimizing around 28mm instead of 25mm. Also some probability they haven’t. Given this new front wheel may be considered a niche specialty wheel - like the HED Jet 180. Maybe from Enve being butthurt that Pog was running Aerocoach front and rear. Still Aerocoach rear in the above article.
There is 3 brands now who’s “28mm optimized” are faster with a 25mm. Maybe “optimized” means “we made it less bad”.
Maybe the 30% premium on the Aero111 was the deal breaker for UAE.
There is 3 brands now who’s “28mm optimized” are faster with a 25mm. Maybe “optimized” means “we made it less bad”.
.
I know we’re never going back to 19mm even though that could likely be made more aero than anything with 25mm. Unlikely to go back to 23mm which was the standard just a few years ago. And could also likely be made more aero than 25mm.
Is 25mm the backstop? Where the aero nerds draw a line in the sand? Enough is enough! I don’t know.
There is 3 brands now who’s “28mm optimized” are faster with a 25mm. Maybe “optimized” means “we made it less bad”.
.
I know we’re never going back to 19mm even though that could likely be made more aero than anything with 25mm. Unlikely to go back to 23mm which was the standard just a few years ago. And could also likely be made more aero than 25mm.
Is 25mm the backstop? Where the aero nerds draw a line in the sand? Enough is enough! I don’t know.
Does it matter? If this works, it will be true marketing genius on the part of Continental - a $120 bicycle tire with “air vortex generating shape’s”, who’s effectiveness will decrease as the tire wears, requiring another $120 tire purchase, even though the tire is otherwise perfectly fine!
The article confirms it was ridden by McNulty at US pro Nats.
There is an Enve prototype, ridden at US Nats. But I thought the Giro was still on the aerocoach wheel? https://www.cyclingweekly.com/...l-victory-on-stage-7
Is there any pic of that Enve wheel on a ‘UCI equipment’ race? (I guess we’ll see tomorrow)
In Europe you find the TT TR for 60eur and this new one is priced at 120eur (+shipping through swissside). Not sure if the aero 111 will also be found at standard retailers?
Edit: yes, already on bike24 for example.
I’m in Europe and the cheapest I found the TT TR is 69€. I just ordered a pair last week. But what is the point of comparing the street price of a 1+ year old product to one that is 2 days old and has a short-term exclusivity deal with a single retailer? This price difference will not remain.
For the watt claims, it’s a good $/W deal even at retail price. But I agree that if this is an S TR tire, then the TT TR will likely still be faster due to the speed/yaw at which the claims are made.
Edit: the enve proto type has an exposed valve. Tadej’s wheel today did not.
I was looking, but it was spinning too fast.
I’m not sure what the UCI rules are for prototype wheels.
But I’ve read that McNulty raced the Enve wheel at US TT Nationals, and I believe U.S. pro nationals is held to UCI equipment standards.
Edit: It did appear to have exposed nipples. And wasn’t plastered with Enve logos. So that would say Aerocoach. Huh, either the new Enve wheel didn’t test faster or else there was some issue getting approval.
Yeah so moving on, I find it more interesting that tadej was riding a tt front and a regular 5000 s tr in the back.
You saw that he kept the regular TR for the race? You have much better eyes than I do at picking out that stuff. I’d assumed the TR was the training tire kept on for the photo shoot.
For the 28 v 25 bet, it looked like no one on the podium had 28s. But my visual calipers are probably far from perfect.
Yeah so moving on, I find it more interesting that tadej was riding a tt front and a regular 5000 s tr in the back.
You saw that he kept the regular TR for the race? You have much better eyes than I do at picking out that stuff. I’d assumed the TR was the training tire kept on for the photo shoot.
For the 28 v 25 bet, it looked like no one on the podium had 28s. But my visual calipers are probably far from perfect.
Never mind. Just found a photo that you can see TT on the rear.
For the 28 v 25 bet, it looked like no one on the podium had 28s. But my visual calipers are probably far from perfect.
For the record, I bet Slowman $20 that nobody who gets on the Podium, in this years TDF Time Trials, would have a 28mm (or wider) front tire. That’s it - he never wagered anything. I loose, I send him a crisp $20. I win, I get nothing except his continued insightful contributions to this Forum, which we all appreciate.
We saw some great racing today in Stage 7, with Evenpoel, Pogacar, and Roglic on the Podium. So far, as best I can tell, no 28mm’s on the front.
Doesn’t seem like a large delta from -10 deg to 10 deg. Pretty marginal gains. For $120/tire, not sure it’s worth it. How often do we really see yaw beyond 10 degrees?
Any rolling resistance data?
How much does the TT TR cost in your country? I assume the difference is maybe $20, for the same or more gains than a cockpit change, new helmet, etc (which all need an aero test to verify). The W/$ is pretty high on these and will be the same for all riders.
I can get a TT for $75 in the US. I’m not really seeing the total watts saved on these compared to a TT or the corsa pro speed when you factor in crr unless you ride in high yaw conditions (>+/-10 deg). It appears that one would save ~1-2 watt -10 to 10 deg against most other top tires aero wise. But then you are giving up crr compared to a TT and a lot more to a corsa pro speed.
Flo did a study years ago about yaw angles where they found 80% of riding was between -10 to 10 deg of yaw. Not sure if there has been any recent studies saying otherwise or specific courses that see higher yaw than others. https://blog.flocycling.com/...tep-2-data-analysis/
Tom Anhalt used to say “crr makes up for a lot of aero sinsâ€.
According to cycling news, Cav did a tire sawp because of concern of flatting with the Corsa Pro Speed which he put on last second, during the reace
Doesn’t seem like a large delta from -10 deg to 10 deg. Pretty marginal gains. For $120/tire, not sure it’s worth it. How often do we really see yaw beyond 10 degrees?
Any rolling resistance data?
How much does the TT TR cost in your country? I assume the difference is maybe $20, for the same or more gains than a cockpit change, new helmet, etc (which all need an aero test to verify). The W/$ is pretty high on these and will be the same for all riders.
I can get a TT for $75 in the US. I’m not really seeing the total watts saved on these compared to a TT or the corsa pro speed when you factor in crr unless you ride in high yaw conditions (>+/-10 deg). It appears that one would save ~1-2 watt -10 to 10 deg against most other top tires aero wise. But then you are giving up crr compared to a TT and a lot more to a corsa pro speed.
Flo did a study years ago about yaw angles where they found 80% of riding was between -10 to 10 deg of yaw. Not sure if there has been any recent studies saying otherwise or specific courses that see higher yaw than others. https://blog.flocycling.com/...tep-2-data-analysis/
Tom Anhalt used to say “crr makes up for a lot of aero sinsâ€.
According to cycling news, Cav did a tire sawp because of concern of flatting with the Corsa Pro Speed which he put on last second, during the reace
CRR makes up for aero sins but not for flatting or blowing of the rim
i hope you are ok that i refined your post a bit lol
