Yes, it’s actually really good now compared with the old Corsa Speed! Not sure on the Archetype on the Bolt I’m afraid, we didn’t test that.
Will you be coming out with a comparison of fastest wheel/tire combos? The Titan is fastest with the 24 mm Corsa Pro Speeds for example - I would like to see that matched up with the fastest tires for the Thunderbolt, Bolt, and a selection of other wheel manufacturer’s best wheels.
Thanks for posting.
One of the interesting things here is that zipp actually fairs pretty well.
So the Titan with 24mm CPS is 133.0w, just behind the Bolt w/28mm at 132.9w. The reason why we kept with a straight 28mm for these data sets is because it’s a bit of a minefield with internal rim widths and manufacturers recommended tyres (and even then it didn’t quite work because the Reserve is so wide we had to use a 29mm Corsa Pro Speed and 30mm Archetype!)
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Yes it is good 
we do also have a set of the much older, narrower 858 NSWs which in were very slow with any tyre we put on them, though
Do the drag plots you shared also account for power to spin? As I imagine the disc and the trispokes would pull further ahead if that was included.
Do you have some ~60mm deep wheel data you can also show, so that we can see the difference between the ~60 and 90mm wheel depths? Also what’s the internal width of the new wheels?
I know some people think that rotational drag has a large effect but we’ve never been able to detect a large influence, even disc wheels etc. - that’s doing track testing, outdoor testing, roller testing vs. the wind tunnel data.
Internal width is 21mm, wider wasn’t faster. Not sure why the Reserve wheel is so wide - the Vision 91 SL is IMO the better wheel in comparison as it’s much more versatile in terms of tyre choice etc, pretty light too! We wanted to focus on the deeper stuff for this data set, the aim really being to show that the Thunderbolt & Bolt are quicker than the deepest & quickest wheels. We have others but that’ll be part of a road racing data set instead
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I think you’ll need a calibrated motor setup to measure power to spin, it would be hard to separate out without that. DT swiss does say that 1/4 of well drag is rotational drag. If I recall correctly your disc wheels are still spoked inside which means there’s more residual rotational drag than a solid disc.
I look forward to the road racing data set as I’m making a road wheel purchase soon and am debating if it’s worth looking crazy running a 80-90mm deep front for aero gains over a 60mm (I race in the US so not UCI bound).
Are you really able to measure with 0.1 W precision?
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That’s not with just our AEOX discs (spoked inside) by the way, we’ve done quite a bit of work on the track side too where there’s loads of 3/4/5 spokes and “solid” discs. In fact our upcoming track disc wheels don’t have spokes inside.
Unfortunately the road racing stuff will take a while 
we’re still waiting for final confirmation on the rim depth being 65mm before we go all in, discussions are still happening around the upcoming rules amendments and when they will be applicable. Might yet be 2027, we’ll just have to see!
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Understood. However do you have a rough idea how much slower a ~60mm wheel is over a ~90mm wheel (assuming both wire spoked and similar design family/vintage)?
Swissside published data on their own 80mm wheel vs 65mm and the difference was 1.1W.
I have no reason to doubt the data as it wasn’t a comparison to another brand so no reason to cherry pick a favourable speed or yaw angle.
If a wheel is 1.5 - 2 watts faster than another wheel at 45kph, what would be the difference at a more age grouper friendly 35kph? Splitting hairs?
You would generally expect a trend towards a greater benefit to the deeper wheel with slower riders due to the increased likelihood of higher yaw angles.
Do you recall what model/year it was?