http://tour-de-france.velonews.com/article/95744/cancellara-says-motorcycles-helped-contador
http://tour-de-france.velonews.com/article/95742/contador-ducks-doping-questions
Coggan weighs in:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contadors-climbing-credibility-questioned
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Interesting reading but nothing most of us haven’t thought privately or debated publicly here.
It does seem that Contador is an unique specimen that is the size and weight or a pure climber and yet can produce a winning TT against the best TT specialists in the world. Quite incredible as the two disciplines work for completely opposite physical specimens.
Am I surprised he didn’t answer any of the questions in the interview? Not in the slightest, he has never openly answered any questions about Fuetes nor issued any statements explaining his role or clearing his name.
I’d like to see anyone other than him and an Astana cleansweep on the podium in PAris.
The press has to have SOMETHING to do … so no surprise that this is being blown up to try and make it into a big deal.
Best climber in history?? Not a chance …
Summary: Lance LOST.
seriously, let it go.
I would rather know his lactate threshold than his VO2 max. That’s more of a determining factor when you look at climbing and time trialing.
It’d be a losing battle even if he were to reveal it. Look at the Coyle study with Lance. That study was supposed to help establish why Lance was so good. Of course the study was full of holes and has basically been ripped apart. But the exact same thing would happen to Contador. Even if whomever did the study had it peer reviewed, etc. there would still be challenges and limitations and flaws. Plus there would just be the non-believers.
Contador, IMO, is doing the right thing. Lance chose to actively speak out against his accusers. Contador is silent. Neither approach makes a difference. One - and only one - thing is what matters. Whether or not they have ever been caught. You don’t have to assume that Contador is either innocent or guilty. You can do whatever you like.
But there is NOTHING Contador could do or say that would convince everyone, so why try? There will always be the doubters. And I say that as someone who is simultaneously in awe of his raw ability and also, unfortunately because of history, skeptical of it.
theres no way to prove one is clean anyway, kind of a dumb request from lemond
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“It does seem that Contador is an unique specimen that is the size and weight or a pure climber and yet can produce a winning TT against the best TT specialists in the world. Quite incredible as the two disciplines work for completely opposite physical specimens.”
Its not like you’re comparing the physique of a runner with a swimmer here, or even a climber with a track sprinter.
actually, its surprising to me that more climbers aren’t better TT-ers since they are clearly capable of of producing decent power for sustained periods.
I think the reason some climbers that don’t TT well is because they haven’t trained to TT well both physically and mentally and not because of their physiques. Wiggins of course has also shown you can go the other way…
Its not like you’re comparing the physique of a runner with a swimmer here, or even a climber with a track sprinter.
True, I’m comparing Cont to Cancellara. Similar physiques?
Its not like you’re comparing the physique of a runner with a swimmer here, or even a climber with a track sprinter.
True, I’m comparing Cont to Cancellara. Similar physiques?
or you could compare Cont to Wiggins…or Lance before he retired…
my point is that just because some strong TTers have been bigger than what you consider ideal for a climber, I don’t think this means you have to have this larger build to be a good TTer. I wouldn’t have considered Lance pre retirement to have been particularly large, neither are David Millar or Brad Wiggins, Not when you compare to the likes of Miguel Indurain and Jan Ullrich…
Mind you, I bet Contador looks pretty beefy himself compared to the likes of Rasmussen!
physique doesn’t win bike races. I thought Lance already proved that.
Does anyone remember Eros Poli? At one time he was the absolute largest man in the pro peloton and during one Tour he won the most difficult mountain stage.
Yeah, but he had a 20 minute head start, and the finish was after the descent…Where he actually made up lost time.
or you could compare Cont to Wiggins…or Lance before he retired…
my point is that just because some strong TTers have been bigger than what you consider ideal for a climber, I don’t think this means you have to have this larger build to be a good TTer. I wouldn’t have considered Lance pre retirement to have been particularly large, neither are David Millar or Brad Wiggins, Not when you compare to the likes of Miguel Indurain and Jan Ullrich…
I think there is somewhat of a chicken and egg situation here. You say “my point is that just because some strong TTers have been bigger than what you consider ideal for a climber, I don’t think this means you have to have this larger build to be a good TTer.”
I say that they have been larger as this is what works to be more effective as a TTer that’s not to say that it’s only possible to be that way to be a successful TTer but there’s a reason why the majority has been.
If they were all the same height I could agree…
A 20 minute head start? They let him start early?
6’4" 190 pounds, he won Ventoux after a 110 mile solo breakaway. He beat all odds.
Interesting reading but nothing most of us haven’t thought privately or debated publicly here.
It does seem that Contador is an unique specimen that is the size and weight or a pure climber and yet can produce a winning TT against the best TT specialists in the world. Quite incredible as the two disciplines work for completely opposite physical specimens.
I think the reason this is ‘so incredible’ is that it fits people’s preconceptions of “oh, he’s a climber who can suddenly TT, he must be doping”.
I’m not saying he’s clean–I’m say that both assumptions are incorrect. The are plenty of small riders who can TT (Rominger was the hour record holder?? who was smaller than that guy?? Tracks are pretty flat, after all). Secondly, Contador has always been a great TT rider–he’s just gotten a little better. He’s been winning big TT’s his entire career.
I’d disagree that the two disciplines are* that* different. One is w/kg and one is w/CxA. Yeah, because of allometric scaling a bigger rider has a bit of an advantage, but the advantage isn’t THAT big, and even most ‘flat’ euro TT’s have hills in them (like yesterday’s TT).
there’s a lot of irony in Cancellara’s whining about the motor bikes. He even said ‘my bikes weren’t as close’. Funny… Truth is it’s really likely Ignatiev would have ridden faster than both of them if he had Cancellara’s draft (or Contador’s).
Power is more important than size but I think what you’re saying is Larger guys typically have higher absolute Power and generally speaking TTs are on flatish courses where absolute power generation is more important than watts/kg…
And I’m just saying “why so surprised at Contador?” as there is no reason why slighter people shouldn’t be able to produce high absolute power. In our sport for example, Natascha Badmann and Jordan Rapp are two fine examples.
it has more to do with watts/kg vs/ watts/CdA for a climber vs a TT, as well as total watts.
Yes, some of the “climbers” could probably learn to TT better and be set up better, but for them it falls into the “why bother” cat, since they can’t achieve the w/CdA that Sparticus does.
did everyone forget that that the riders also had to go down the hill? The finish wasn’t higher than the start. Sure contador might of been faster up the hill but the downhill should negate this benefit (no not 100% but for one little bump it shouldn’t make a big difference) meaning overall watts aka cancellara should prevail.