Hoping to get some advice from people more experienced than myself regarding my FTP and Blood Lactate test results from the last few days. I’ve been running for a couple of years but I’m brand new to cycling/tri this year, only sprint distances so far.
My total cycling miles on a bike is only 1,240 according to my Strava and I took the Zwift FTP test back in January and it came out to 212. For the past 3 months ive been getting “coached”, (they work with HR and blood lactate numbers, though im not convinced of the accuracy of this) in the hope of learning how to better train for this sport. The test 3 months ago and the re-test from 3 days ago are virtually identical and show no improvement. Sadly I don’t have my baseline/ at rest lactate number, but the other 4 points taken are below. The test was done on a Wattbike and my heart rate and power was stable at each of these measuring points for 5-10mins. I have a naturally low heart rate and my resting is just 42 bpm. The guy coaching me basically hasnt seen anyone with numbers like this where heart rate etc remain stable whilst im clearly heavily anaerobic and he seemed completely clueless on where I should go from here in terms of training, needless to say hes been dropped.
Since this I’ve retaken the Zwift FTP test and came out with a new FTP of 258w which im happy with but dont actually think I could hold for an hour straight; I also tried 5 second (946w) and 1 min (537w - badly judged start, could def go higher) efforts today… fatigued so I didn’t try 5 minute as well. Stava link to my FTP test if that helps https://www.strava.com/activities/1928598232/overview.
The problem I have now is that I intended to try some polarised training and do a lot of easier work through the winter, assuming this type of training is what I need in order to pull out more power over time, as I’ve never really done any base mileage. But if I set my easy training at Z2 power level which is what Ive read to mainly be Z1 in polarised, then id be working around 190w… but if I set my easy training according to lactate numbers then id need to be doing around 150w??
How old are you and how much to you weigh?
That increase in FTP of basically 25% in a 3 month period is pretty phenomenal. Your coach was obviously doing something right on that front.
remember that an FTP test result is not necessarily “really” your FTP. FTP is something that goes on inside of you physiologically that can’t be directly measured other than through certain tests that to my knowledge themselves all have various issues. The FTP test uses your power over a certain distance filtered through a model as a PROXY for the stuff going on inside your body that can’t be directly measured. So, there’s no real reason to expect them to be the same. More specifically, let’s assume for most cyclists, 95% of 20 minute power is “close enough” to the FTP you measure in a lab or with fancy equipment. However, there will be outliers. There are some people who are great at jamming out 20 minutes of power and maybe for them, their FTP is somthing more like 92% of that value. Or, some people are diesel engines who can push forever but have trouble reaching high peaks, and maybe for htem FTP is 97% of 20 minute power.
In any event, i wouldn’t get too hung up on all of this for a few reasons, specifically:
Big improvement is big improvement regardless of whether that technically is your “FTP”
if you COULD actually measure FTP directly, you’d probably see lots of day to day variation based on all sorts of factors because we humans are imperfect machines
training zones based around a 20 minute test probably get you close enough in any event
more precision (i.e., having a coach interpret your blood tests) i’m sure is beneficial but probably more like icing on the cake rather than prerequisite.
Looking at those lactate numbers I would say that your gains are stagnant because you mostly train too hard.
If you are at 4.4mm at 195 watts- that is way too hard to be an endurance ride. Heck, 158 watts is also likely too hard.
Also- Your high lactic acid at higher levels shows that you don’t filter very well.
I’d be inclined to agree with Bootsie that you have been doing too much intensity (relatively, anyway).
However the question of where to place that low intensity zone is pretty tough.
I have a few issues with the lactate test.
The stage jumps were inappropriately high
Given a first lactate of 2+ mmol/L, the test should have been restarted at a lower workload after a short break and warm-up period.
For the moment, my recommendation would to train a significant portion of your time between 150 and 170 watts. Even if this feels extremely easy.
What was your heart rate during the FTP test?
What is your typical max?
How old are you and how much to you weigh?
That increase in FTP of basically 25% in a 3 month period is pretty phenomenal. Your coach was obviously doing something right on that front.
Or OP was completely untrained at the start … so not really a good comparison ?
I’m 32, 6ft 2" and around 220lbs atm, so not a small guy. But I think mvenneta is correct, back when I took the original FTP test just sitting on a bike long enough to complete the test was as difficult as pushing hard for 20 minutes! I also didnt do a FTP test 3 months ago when the coaching started, where I would have been able to go close to what I did the other day I’m quite sure, or at least bridged the gap quite a lot.
Looking at those lactate numbers I would say that your gains are stagnant because you mostly train too hard.
I’d be inclined to agree with Bootsie that you have been doing too much intensity (relatively, anyway).
What was your heart rate during the FTP test?
What is your typical max?
This was my feeling as well, essentially the coach set my easy cycling days at a heart rate between 125-130bpm, rather than any power level. For some reason he uses 5Mmol as LT2, but still only ball parked that level based off 2 lactate readings on my first test. I did mention to him about these cycle sessions not being as easy as he described they would be, but it was shrugged off as me being new to the bike. I also had two weekly bricks at this intensity, so running off the bike was always a bit of a nightmare trying to keep my heart rate low enough, as my legs were cooked and the running was clunky. This was combined with 2 hard interval sessions at a sprint intensity (120+% FTP) i.e. 20x30sec, 15x60sec on/off, and a tough weights session once a week which was high rep to failure. It was too much for me and I had to skip at least one session most weeks, my recovery has never been a strong point.
The chart above is my strava segment for the 20 minute FTP test. The heart rate at the end of the test 167/168 is the highest ive ever managed to get it on the bike, usually by the time im hitting the low 160’s my legs are feeling like they are dead, but I was able to cycle through that long enough just to complete this test. General max heart rate is 186, in running terms I would hold mid 160’s for a tempo/10k pace. I seem to be able to get up to and hold much higher heart rates with running compared to the cycling, with a much lower perceived effort.
First, without the full protocol or at least a time for each step, the numbers are meaningless.
More than likely the only part of that test under threshold was the first level.
More than likely your baseline will be between .7 and .9 mmol.
The test shows typical results for somebody that is relatively untrained.
There is no real power without burning sugar at this stage, You pretty much use sugar all day.
There is good advice above, expect your real threshold to be well under 200 watts and the advice of targeting under 170w for a decent length ride is good.
The tester should have run at least a couple of preliminary efforts or examined some ride data and determined a more appropriate test configuration.
But realistically, this was a waste of time.
Your numbers will change dramatically after some training and this test showed nothing.
Just go out and ride and get some longer distance in you.
Find some similar level folks and go do some long and enjoyable group rides.
… but it was shrugged off as me being new to the bike. … my recovery has never been a strong point.
Advice: get another coach. A coach should listen to your feedback and adapt training. Also recovery is key to getting better. Listen to your body. Do not know what you your ambition / A-race is but first get the base right. Typically endurance rides and no they do not have to be > 4 hours. Start with 90 min and build slowly. If you want to do bricks just run of the bike in a easy tempo for 15-20min.
You said original test was on a wattbike. What’s the rest of it all on?
You’re looking at maybe over 20w differences between setups.
That tine period and weight, it isn’t out of possibility, but if that was the actual miles I doubt the newest number. Maybe 255ish realistically.
Both lactate tests were done on the Wattbike, my FTP tests are done on my Elite Direto/Zwift turbo setup. Just going off my perceived effort and HR response etc I’ve always found both setups very similar in terms of wattage, but I agree they are likely to have a small difference between them.
I’m pretty confident I cant hold that new FTP number for an hour straight, I just think I can hurt long enough anaerobically to inflate the test output. Going off feel I’d estimate I can probably only hold somewhere around 210-220w for the hour.
I’d estimate I can probably only hold somewhere around 210-220w for the hour.
You did hold 271w for 20min and finished strong. I suspect you are underestimating your ability.
Even if you estimate your FTP at 90% of 20min power that is still 243w.
Since you probably don’t know the quality of the lactate measurement device/protocol, and the fact you won’t use it moving forward, I would completely ignore those lactate tests and would try and zero in our your real numbers using your power meter.
You said original test was on a wattbike. What’s the rest of it all on?
You’re looking at maybe over 20w differences between setups.
That tine period and weight, it isn’t out of possibility, but if that was the actual miles I doubt the newest number. Maybe 255ish realistically.
Both lactate tests were done on the Wattbike, my FTP tests are done on my Elite Direto/Zwift turbo setup. Just going off my perceived effort and HR response etc I’ve always found both setups very similar in terms of wattage, but I agree they are likely to have a small difference between them.
I’m pretty confident I cant hold that new FTP number for an hour straight, I just think I can hurt long enough anaerobically to inflate the test output. Going off feel I’d estimate I can probably only hold somewhere around 210-220w for the hour.
Have you considered doing a longer test of approximately an hour? That would give you a far more reliable estimate of power at MLSS than estimates from 20 minute tests.
Being able to compare the results of 20 min tests and 60 min tests will give far more valuable insight than just doing 20 minute tests.
With the right definition of slow, it work also for bike.
That article assumes time is unlimited. For most, training is restricted by hours available in a day and time required to recover properly.
That article uses HR - 60% of MHR for me is easy Z1 and not aerobic yet
If OP is doing 5hr weekend rides and 15 hour weeks on the bike, then I agree that a disproportionate amount of those hours should be done in a z2 pace. But not 80% split between Z1-3
But OP has ridden 1300 miles in 10 months. Call that 32 miles / week. His ask of getting stronger isnt resolved by riding 80% slow
