Great win by Wiggins today. The TT up Col d’Eze shows us just how hard these guys were riding a quarter century ago.
The delta between what Wiggins did today over 19:12 was 33 seconds on Sean Kelly’s 19:45. Only 3 guys today bested Sean Kelly. I wonder how fast Kelly could have gone with today’s technology and training innovations.
In 1972 Poulidor did 20:04 and Merckx did 20:14 in 1970…so Kloden and Cuenego barely beat Eddy Merckx!
Stage 8 Paris-Nice 2012
WIGGINS Bradley, Sky Procycling in 19:12 2. WESTRA Lieuwe, Vacansoleil-Dcm at 00:02 3. PERAUD Jean-Christophe, Ag2r La Mondiale at 00:33 4. SPILAK Simon, Katusha Team at 00:47 5. COPPEL Jérôme, Saur-Sojasun at 00:51 6. VALVERDE Alejandro, Movistar Team at 00:52 7. KLÖDEN Andréas, Radioshack-Nissan at 00:58 8. MONCOUTIE David, Cofidis Le Credit En Ligne at 00:59 9. CUNEGO Damiano, Lampre – Isd at 00:59 10. URAN Rigoberto, Sky Procycling at 01:06
From the commentary I think Kelly’s average speed was higher than Wiggins, just over a slightly longer course.
The Poulidor and Merckx course was apparently pretty close to the one used today.
Sean did say that he though there might have been a tailwind on his record ride though, where today was supposedly quite calm.
He also said that he rode a special lightweight bike for the climb, around the 6.8kg mark too, and that the road surface back then was similarly good.
Great win by Wiggins today. The TT up Col d’Eze shows us just how hard these guys were riding a quarter century ago.
The delta between what Wiggins did today over 19:12 was 33 seconds on Sean Kelly’s 19:45. Only 3 guys today bested Sean Kelly. I wonder how fast Kelly could have gone with today’s technology and training innovations.
In 1972 Poulidor did 20:04 and Merckx did 20:14 in 1970…so Kloden and Cuenego barely beat Eddy Merckx!
Stage 8 Paris-Nice 2012
WIGGINS Bradley, Sky Procycling in 19:12 2. WESTRA Lieuwe, Vacansoleil-Dcm at 00:02 3. PERAUD Jean-Christophe, Ag2r La Mondiale at 00:33 4. SPILAK Simon, Katusha Team at 00:47 5. COPPEL Jérôme, Saur-Sojasun at 00:51 6. VALVERDE Alejandro, Movistar Team at 00:52 7. KLÖDEN Andréas, Radioshack-Nissan at 00:58 8. MONCOUTIE David, Cofidis Le Credit En Ligne at 00:59 9. CUNEGO Damiano, Lampre – Isd at 00:59 10. URAN Rigoberto, Sky Procycling at 01:06
Did Sean Kelly ever have to fill in a whereabouts form?
From the commentary I think Kelly’s average speed was higher than Wiggins, just over a slightly longer course.
The Poulidor and Merckx course was apparently pretty close to the one used today.
Sean did say that he though there might have been a tailwind on his record ride though, where today was supposedly quite calm.
Look…all that Kelly and his peers had access to was the equipment and medicin from the pre EPO era. I think its a wash even if he accessed things other than equipment, just because today’s equipment should be a lot better.The 19:46 ride by Kelly was pretty astounding. Seriously, though what dope could you take in the mid 80’s that would allow you to carry more exygen and help you on a hillclimb?
Look…all that Kelly and his peers had access to was the equipment and medicin from the pre EPO era. I think its a wash even if he accessed things other than equipment, just because today’s equipment should be a lot better.The 19:46 ride by Kelly was pretty astounding. Seriously, though what dope could you take in the mid 80’s that would allow you to carry more exygen and help you on a hillclimb?
Enough amphetamines and you dont even notice your legs are dying.
Looks like everyone was riding road bikes with a few clip-ons here and there. Given that, it’s not a surprise that times are relatively similar between eras. One look at the plot below (blue markers) shows how if you keep equipment constant, the athletes haven’t improved THAT much. It’s the equipment ore than anything, as indicated by the green markers (the big upticks thanks to the likes of Obree and Boardman).
Cool plot. I’d like to see this just showing the Y axis between 45-60 kph and the line will look a ‘bit’ steeper. Also, would be interesting to see the same performances in watts per kilo. But in fairness, if we took the 10,000m track record, it probably would not show a curve that is any more or less dramatic (would probably track with the watts per kilo improvements of protour caliber riders).
Look…all that Kelly and his peers had access to was the equipment and medicin from the pre EPO era. I think its a wash even if he accessed things other than equipment, just because today’s equipment should be a lot better.The 19:46 ride by Kelly was pretty astounding. Seriously, though what dope could you take in the mid 80’s that would allow you to carry more exygen and help you on a hillclimb?
Even the slightest modification of wind speed or direction can make up for all the aerodynamic and training improvements. You are making a very simplified comparison here
Cool plot. I’d like to see this just showing the Y axis between 45-60 kph and the line will look a ‘bit’ steeper. Also, would be interesting to see the same performances in watts per kilo. But in fairness, if we took the 10,000m track record, it probably would not show a curve that is any more or less dramatic (would probably track with the watts per kilo improvements of protour caliber riders).
Data is at the wiki page - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hour_record
For 10k running, at first I thought so as well. But when looking at the list of records through the years, the Africans really started to make their mark in the 70s-present. But even so, the difference between the '60s and now is ~80 seconds. Wonder how much impact improved track surface or shoes. I’m not a running historian, but something has to have been up with Ron Clarke shaving 35 seconds off his own record in less than 2 years. But those 10k guys (and gals) are running skeletons. At least cyclists don’t have the freakishly low BMI of elite distance runners.
Look…all that Kelly and his peers had access to was the equipment and medicin from the pre EPO era. I think its a wash even if he accessed things other than equipment, just because today’s equipment should be a lot better.The 19:46 ride by Kelly was pretty astounding. Seriously, though what dope could you take in the mid 80’s that would allow you to carry more exygen and help you on a hillclimb?
Even the slightest modification of wind speed or direction can make up for all the aerodynamic and training improvements. You are making a very simplified comparison here
and anytime you compare a world record from the past, its almost always a day with great conditions, otherwise it wouldn’t have been the world record =)
Fair comment about access to blood doping. The Americans were doing it at the LA olympics as it was legal in 84…before we throw all our European friends under the bus as if they were the only ones doing it…
I’m an athlete today, so I’d really like to see today’s guys blow things away, but the reality as Tigermilk pointed out using the running example, the deltas between now and then are not as dramatic as we’d hope for. Also, I think a lot of today’s athletes dismiss past athletes like they were all dopers…but dope or not, there are always a few athletes in every generation that rise above their peers and who are then compared across generations. Kelly was one athlete who rose above his peers who we remember today. Everyone back then had access to the same stuff. If he used anything, he was still better than the rest.
To the person saying that aerodynamics due to wind conditions could make a big difference, we’re all in agreement. Cycling fans will still compare times between eras. You’ll never get away from that.
Even the slightest modification of wind speed or direction can make up for all the aerodynamic and training improvements. You are making a very simplified comparison here
and anytime you compare a world record from the past, its almost always a day with great conditions, otherwise it wouldn’t have been the world record =)
Yes but the conditions of “a day with great conditions” aren’t always the same. A variation of 2kph of the relative velocity can account for 10-12W even tough it will be hardly noticeable during the ITT
Look…all that Kelly and his peers had access to was the equipment and medicin from the pre EPO era. I think its a wash even if he accessed things other than equipment, just because today’s equipment should be a lot better.The 19:46 ride by Kelly was pretty astounding. Seriously, though what dope could you take in the mid 80’s that would allow you to carry more exygen and help you on a hillclimb?
Enough amphetamines and you dont even notice your legs are dying.
hmm, you may want to ask Mr. Simpson about that, in which case, its: Enough amphetamines and you dont even notice you are dying
From the commentary I think Kelly’s average speed was higher than Wiggins, just over a slightly longer course.
The Poulidor and Merckx course was apparently pretty close to the one used today.
Sean did say that he though there might have been a tailwind on his record ride though, where today was supposedly quite calm.
Sean Kelly is classy.
i like him as a commentator, though it took me a year before i figured out what “torty” is. Is that twenty, thirty or forty?
Most of the past “greats” doped, and if there’s one for whom i’d root, it’s the poor Irish boy who probably had the best race craft of his generation. Just rewatch him taking risks and descending the Poggio at the ripe old age of 37 and overhaul Argentin 1.5k from the line in MSR 1992. Oh, and let’s not forget that he’s GC rider, too
His only blemishes? The doping offenses, and see below
Have you read his book? The amount of racing he did, driving through the night from one venue to the next, where abouts would be totally un-practical.
