Climbing help

Triathlon Forum
1

Is there an method to getting faster on climbs? Specific workouts? I know it’s not as simple as “do more hills” because when you want to be a faster runner, you don’t just go out and run fast every time. Am I mistaken?

Right now I get burned on hills. I’m a newer cyclist but I do ok. I average around 20MPH but that average would go way up if I could manage hills. I weigh 210 so I know that it willl always be harder for me to get up hills, but I see bigger guys who can climb so I want to be better. Last week I rode a half ironman course and got abosolutely murdered coming back on this stretch of road. It had many hills and a 15MPH headwind. My pace suffered, and I felt weak and laughable going up the hills as slow as I was.

2

Learn to regulate your gearing better. Perhaps invest in a broader range rear cassette. Gearing will help you to regulate your effort and keep it more consistent. Especially being a big guy, a 27 (or larger) in the back might be a big help. That is free speed. Smarter shifting will definitely help.

Lose weight. If you are naturally big, you will always suffer, but dropping weight will help.

Aside from that, practice on the hills. Try “negative splitting” (building speed as you climb). Also find some long climbs and try to maintain a consistent effort (use RPE, not speed, unless you are lucky enough to have a powermeter, then try to keep power constant).

3

somebody your size will likely climb better seated rather than standing. don’t start off too hard and then have to slow down half way up. hill climbing is power/weight ratio, work on both sides of the equation. climbing more hills is the best way to get better. not only will you get stronger but you learn just how hard you can push before you blow up and have to slow way down. holding your effort right at that threshold is the key. just don’t do so many that you don’t recover between workouts or hurt your knees.

4

Lose weight, increase your power.

When you talk about hills, do you mean rollers (a few hundred yards long with <1000 ft elevation change) or long sustained climbs (distance in miles, elevation measured in 1000’s)?

Many big guys can ride rollers, since they’re basically a short sprint. Big guys tend to generate a lot of power so they can just crank up these hills for short periods. IMO, this isn’t “climbimg.”

Most big guys get killed on long sustained climbs. They just don’t have a high power to weight ratio that they can sustain at a relatively low effort.

So… If you want to get stronger on rollers, you need to increase your peak power. Hill repeats, sprints, interval work will help. Personally I don’t like structured workouts. Another thing you can do is just hammer every roller you encounter on an otherwise easy ride.

To get better at long climbs, you will need to become more efficient. Drop some weight (Unless you’re like 6’7"), and ride a lot. You’ll still need to increase your power output but not specifically your peak power. How to do this? Well, I’m at a loss. For me (when I’m in shape, which I’m not), I ride a lot, ride a lot of hills, ride with groups who are faster than me, ride into the wind, always pull if I’m riding in a group that’s slower than me. But just ride.

BTW, what I recommend for riding rollers fast isn’t necessarily the best thing to do for Triathlon riding. Any really hard effort on the bike will impact your run. For racing tris, you generally want to ride at a consistent power output that you can sustain over the length of the course. Hammering up hills will hurt you on the run.

Honestly, two things jump out at me from your post “I’m a newer cyclist”, and “I weigh 210” or so. Getting strong on hills and in the wind takes time and miles in your legs. Losing weight only helps. BTW I’m not bagging on you for the weight thing, I’m currently tipping the scales at just under 220.

5

I can try to lose weight, but already right now I’m about 8-9% bodyfat so I’m not carrying a whole lot extra. The lowest I ever been in recent times was 185 for a lifting competition. I would think I have decent power since I formerly lifted a lot of weights, and not like, “HI, I lift weights in my workouts” but rather, “I only lift and lift heavy poundage”.

As far a the “hills”, they really are “rollers”. I live in Iowa…the longest climb I can find is about 2 miles, but only 1-2% grade…needless to say it’s pretty flat around here. I still get beat on these “rollers”…it sucks.

6

Well losing weight doesn’t have to mean losing fat. :wink:

Every ride try to stay with the group as long as you can on the hills. Focus on staying relaxed, and smoothly turning the pedals. Breathe deep. Imagine watching yourself, ride so you look smooooth. Don’t sway, rock, bob, or mash the pedals.

7

You will have to suffer to improve, will have to climb a lot , do reps on the hills, loose as much weight as you can, that is if you really want to be competitive, you have a lot of advantages over smaller riders, but you will suffer like hell climbing, sorry but that is the truth
.

8

I’m there with you. I’m 225ish right now, could get down to 210ish, I’m 192 pounds of LBM, so there isn’t much!

Stay seated except on kick-ups. Like going up a steep moutain road, a switchback might bring the grade from 5% to 9% for 15 yards, but then get back to the saddle.

for me, riding hills is a great way to do ME work, as i find it easier to keep the HR up. and yes, doing LOTS of hills is fine. Cycling is low impact, so hard runninging days are much different. ANd you can have tempo climbing days, hill sprints, LSD hill days, etc. working different areas.

A few other things is keeping your upper body relaxed, not wasting energy. When you do stand up, keep your weight on the pedals, don’t lean so far forward (unless its really steep and you must!) and don’t toss the bike like its in the middle of an ocean storm.

That said, no big guy is going to catch the 130 pound rail on a 14 pound bike up a HC climb. Wait for the rollers to use your power and momentum, and pass them like statues on the decents.

9

That is not climbing, you will try to hang with the group, hard (fast) tempo is the key to your problem, 1 or 2 % shouldn’t be a problem, i am 6’2’’ 220 lbs and where i live is the sierra madre and the mountains are very steep i try to go 2 times a week to a popular climbing path, the elite riders do it between 23 and 27 seconds i do it like in 34 seconds at the best, but when i started it took me more than 1 hour, i was like 256lbs, so keep on raiding , it is the only way and don’t be afraid of the climbs they are ugly for us.

10

Been there, done that with losing muscle weight. Was 215 when started riding/tris. Lifted weights for 15+ years. I too thought that years of squats and deadlifts and legpresses would carryover to riding, especially the hills since they required alot of power. WRONG!

Its taken me 5 years, but I am down to 185. Your’e gonna hafta suck it up and lose the muscle mass. I didn’t have too much bf to begin with either. But, guess what, climbing has improved. Riding 250 miles a week also helps. I also try to get out and hit some major climbs in my area that are measured in miles and can take up to an hour to complete. Like someone else posted, you can better gauge your efforts on these long climbs since you can’t redline it the whole way up and are forced to ride within yourself. Proper gearing is a must as well.

11

You have to lose upper body muscle mass if you want to be a better climber. Maybe you could lose 5lbs of fat, but not a big difference.

Maybe you will never be a climber. Not the worst thing in the world. A guy I started riding with was about 175 and always got dropped on climbs. He hated it, tried to lose more weight, but still sucked.

His coach told him to give up and try track racing. NOw, three years later he is a cat 1 and races friday nights against the likes of Marty Nothstein.

I never did any upper body sports, have skinny bones and climb well, but I get kicked on flats. We cant all be good at everything.

12

**I would think I have decent power since I formerly lifted a lot of weights … . **

Think of climbing as squatting 40 pounds 1000 times rather than squatting 400 pounds 5 times. You need to work on your muscular endurance. Keep tackling what hills you can find and take advantage of those brutal Iowa headwinds. Riding hard into a good headwind can take the place of a hill.

Weight does matter but I doubt it is your main limiter right now. Sure, you’ll be a better climber if you lose 30 or 40 pounds but if that is all you do, you’ll still get smoked by the guys who weigh the same but have better endurance. I weigh the same as you and starting last summer I put a real emphasis on working on hills. I can get up hills (I still wouldn’t exactly call it “climbing”) quite a bit better than I could a year ago and I regularly keep up with the smaller folk.

If I lost 50 pounds I bet I could be amazing, but its not going to happen :wink:

13

From Floydlandis.com: Floyd’s Climbing ProgramJuly 14th, 2005 by Doctor Lim

A rider’s ability to climb is one of the most if not the most important assets he has at the Tour. For Floyd it was what he focused on the most this year. Consequently, I thought it’d be neat to share exactly what he did this last year to prepare for the hills and outline a little hill climbing training program that others can scale down for their own preparation.
In short, our conversation about training for the mountains early this year went something like this:

Me: So how much do you try to climb each month?

Floyd: About 150,000 vertical feet a month.

Me: You think you can do more?

Floyd: Yeah.

Me: Okay, cool. Then, I think you should do more.

Floyd: Sounds good.

14

I found this helpful:

http://www.insidetri.com/train/tips/articles/2787.0.html
.

15

Nice how Dr. Lim mentions “…others can scale down for their own preparation.” I’ve definitely been climbing more than that the last several months. When I initially read that, back during the tour, I was kind of surprised Floyd wasn’t climbing more than a mile a day. Having Dr. Lim’s commentary and Floyd’s data was really great, it made what these guys are doing seem not so far fetched, which is maybe why there aren’t more elites sharing their data and training regimens, it’d be too obvious they aren’t superheroes.

I think periods where you do massive amounts of climbing really is the only way to become an excellent climber. If you live in Iowa, don’t ever expect to excel when the road reaches for the sky. You’re going to need to train in the mountains if you want to be a climber. But if you just keep getting stronger, and shedding excess muscle mass, you’ll increase your power/weight ratio.

16

I do a hill repeat workout every week for strength. I’m an OK climber, but this workout has really improved my overall speed and endurance. I’m lucky to have a great 6% grade close to home, but any hill will do. After you warm up, ride the hill for 5 minutes (or 4 or 3, whatever your endurance allows) and then ride back to your start and repeat. Start easy and increase your effort each time. The goal is to go a little further up the hill each time. I usually do 5 or 6 reps, but you can build to that if you need to. As your strength and endurance improve you can add more reps, but keep the interval fairly short so that you can really put out a good effort each time.

Good Training,

Gary MC

17

If your terrain is similar to mine (can watch your dog run away for three days) then you might want to try heading out on windy days to do repeats.

18

For what its worth, and I’m not any good, but 2 years ago I weighed 221 pounds, and now weigh 174. With the same bike, tires and wheelset, on the same hills, I can go up them like a monkey, now. A few months ago, I let my weight get up to 183-185, and I had a hard time again on them. I could feel that weight immediately…

19

You can be a muscle-man or a fast triathlete, but probably not both.

If you really want to improve, then your power-to-weight ratio has to increase. There are three ways to go about it: 1) lose weight (most of the muscle you have is probably fast-twitch anyway, so it’s not going to help much for anything but sprinting); 2) increase power-endurance; 3) both.

Start doing low-cadence interval sessions. 4 x 8 minutes at < 60 rpm is a good place to start. These aren’t high HR intervals - keep it moderate intensity and be fully rested between intervals. Do 'em twice per week and increase the duration every couple weeks (8 min…10 min…12 min…).

Ultimately, your limiter is going to be your weight. There’s no way a 210 lb. guy will ever be a great climber. Lose some, convert some fast-twitch muscle fiber to slow-twitch muscle fiber, and you’ll see good improvement.

20

How can you convert some fast-twitch muscle fiber to slow-twitch muscle fiber? how to do it, i used to be a Hammer thrower in college, i have lost a lot of weigh but still 219lbs, i am on my way down but how to convert?I have been doing tri for the last 11 years, i am 37