Chris Horner, in my humble opinion

… longer pedal spindles, which your sponsor Shimano now offers, along with a more splay-footed stance on the pedal. this, because of the lack of heel clearance inherent since the advent of hollowtech II and similar bottom bracket systems. alternatively, keep shimano for everything else and move to speedplay, which offers several spindle lengths, and the ability to micro-adjust float arc and range.

of course, your IT band is on fire now and it won’t want to calm down immediately.

that’s separate from the question of wedging and custom footbeds. i think it’s fair to point out that this problem has come up in spite of all the special help available to riders from this team - solestar, shimano, retul. anything can happen to anybody, and you can’t hold retul responsible for the crappy job solestar did at horner’s custom footbed, or solestar for retul’s not recognizing that horner’s stance or stance width is incorrect, or retul for shimano’s not providing the longer spindle, or shimano for horner’s not accepting it. maybe nobody’s to blame. maybe bad things just happen to good knees.

still, when i go on solestar’s site i see all the rider testimonials. what we don’t see are the failures.

Context? Horner sheared off his RD perhaps?

“Horner sheared off his RD perhaps?”

no, but it appears his IT band is in shear. out of ATOC. out indefinitely.

Hey Dan,
No opinion on his injury, but no-one taking a singular resp. for solving his issue (the paragraph appeared to imply this) most disappoints me, seems alot of finger pointing etc. between parties involved?

This is not an add, but that key point alone is the polar opposite of what i experiencd when i attended Steve Hogg in Sydney, following a blown knee and chronic Chondromalacia… he was, and perhaps what impressed me most, very driven to provide a holistic solution, encompassing elements which i hadn’t considered, and at the time even regarded as potentially irrelevent…
i.e. all aspects of the bike fit (component choice, dimensional suitability & functionality), shoes, foot beds (custom arch & heel varus), clothing, physiology (direct and indirect aspects), visual stimuli, materials stimuli, diet, alergies etc etc.

I wonder if Chris were to atend Steve (Sydney Australia, so obvioulsy very practical !!!) if he would recieve anythig dofferent from what he has thus far .?? Gotta feel for the guy, having had side lining injuries… so frustrating…

Just a thought…

He was riding speedplay last year.

I don’t know the whole story, but Chris would never get a bike fit all the years that I attended the radioshack camps, even though he always had fit related issues. The riders that embraced the opportunity received the attention they needed. I feel that it’s the rider’s responsibility to take the bull by the horns when there are fit related issues…often times, this isn’t the case and even though help is out there, they don’t take advantage of it, know where to find it, or receive bad advice. Fit camps can be useful, but it’s half marketing and half actual fitting. There needs to be an expert on staff or contracted to help throughout the season.

“No opinion on his injury, but no-one taking a singular resp. for solving his issue (the paragraph appeared to imply this) most disappoints me, seems alot of finger pointing etc. between parties involved?”

as i believe i said - no, let me quote myself precisely - “maybe nobody’s to blame. maybe bad things just happen to good knees.”

i’m as part of the process as anyone when it comes to: “the secret of my success is brand X.” what we don’t see advertised is: “i took brand X and, guess what, i didn’t get any better,” or, “i took brand X and i got injured.”

accordingly, i would like to see a bit more transparency when it comes to our stars, and all the brands they use that make them win, collectively post mortem a problem in public just as they trumpet a victory in public. i think maybe we’d learn something about the whole process. however, i doubt that’s going to happen in this case, so, pardon if i just whine a little about it.

“all aspects of the bike fit (component choice, dimensional suitability & functionality), shoes, foot beds (custom arch & heel varus), clothing, physiology (direct and indirect aspects), visual stimuli, materials stimuli, diet, alergies etc”

bravo. i don’t know if i’d ask chris horner what he’s allergic to as a way to help solve his IT band problem, and that’s not to say i think that’s a silly approach, rather i don’t know anything about how allergies affect IT bands. but what i would say is that a lot of people who do have IT band problems are helped by a change in stance and plant. i wonder if all these folks who sponsor horner (the 3 companies i mention above) work with each other. talk to each other.

obviously what chris has been doing hasn’t been working. i don’t mean to pick on the folks working with chris, just that some of these folks have been latched onto chris’ achievements (and those of the rest of his team) and leveraged them to sales of their products. it would be nice to see some of these folks acknowledge and opine when things don’t work out - i would be interested as heck to hear about what they all have to say when things don’t work. what they’ve tried. what hasn’t worked. so that we see a little bit of what really goes on when the camera isn’t rolling. for example, did retul actually ever fit horner? if not, maybe it should have. does he really ride in shimano’s pedals and if so which spindle length? does he really have solestar footbeds? if not i think it fair to solestar that this be known.

in short, we’d learn a LOT more about what REALLY happens in the life of a rider if this was more of a transparent process. before you tell me that it’s none of our or my business, remember that horner and his team make a LOT of money by telling us that all their products and therapies work. therefore i think a little transparency into what horner really has been using and trying is not an outrageous request. not that i expect to get it, at least not on the record. just, it would be nice.

“I don’t know the whole story, but Chris would never get a bike fit all the years that I attended the radioshack camps, even though he always had fit related issues.”

there. thank you. and may i say that what i hear commonly, overwhelmingly, is that the directeurs sportif treat the bike fitting session as a sponsor obligation. not as a help. accordingly, when stuff like this happens to riders, well, it’s not that the service wasn’t offered.

Interesting points Dan, and here’s some more food for thought.

1- Before winning TOC, Radio Shack (and I’d assume Astana before that) had not put him in the wind tunnel or done any aero improvement with him…since then who knows. My only point here is that they didn’t give him much attention on that front, but by the sounds of it, he may not have accepted/liked any changes they made to the TT bike even if he did get it.

2- In his Astana days (or maybe over the post Astana Pre-Shack winter), when he’d come out for the Wednesday ride I remember sitting on his wheel watching his right heel flare out during his up stroke, and not a smooth motion, more like a hitch in his stroke. I only remember because I it looked so odd that I was surprised someone hadn’t said something or done something to correct it over the years i.e. do something to his q factor/cleat/shoe/wedge/foot bed etc.

what’s the chance that “hitch” has always been there and is a sign of bio-mechanical issues now causing other issues?

chris horner is famour, or infamous, for his left foot pigeon-toe pedaling action. it’s the left knee that’s got the problem.

i feel bad for anybody who can’t do what he wants athletically. it’s intensely frustrating, demoralizing, humbling, depressing. especially if it’s what you do for a living.

it has been my observation that IT band problems are not unbeatable. but you can’t horse around. you have to support the foot and the footplant properly and you can’t listen to all the horsespit and religion around IT band problems. me? i’d call up richard bryne, and paul swift, and at least hear them out.

1st off - I have a man-crush on Horner and I have followed him since 1951. With that said, maybe he is just old? Shit happens and & Forest Gump said so.

1st off - I have a man-crush on Horner and I have followed him since 1951. With that said, maybe he is just old?


I think the Chris Horner you’ve followed since 1951 is a different much older one.

To coin some coloquialisms…

If a povo little twot like me can see the sense to get my arse on a plane to sydney (albeit from the gold coast Oz ) and pay for a session and see the sense to invest in the material changes my advice recommends / requires… then listen and stick to what i was advised to do… then IMO anyone can… I am a nobody FFS

I gave up the cost of a set of flo’s to get myself sorted, I’m not rich, I’m not sponsored, and I am half as good as i used to be… but despite this black hole of talent, my issues were not fixed until i said “f88kit” commit to a process and get it sorted…
All in i lost a year of riding leading into the issue, gettign it srted then adjusting and recovering… no issue since…
I’m not saying everyone will be lucky enough to get such a good result for issues they have (many poor buggers are way worse off than i was injury wise)… but i don’t accept anyone not taking responsibility…

So I whole heartedly agree with the comment, “ultimately it is down to the athlete, (Chris or anyone else for that matter)… to be resp. for their own solutions etc”…

**Final point… there are so many people taking money off riders, giving them a calculated dimension bike position and paying little if any attention to the functional capability or result of their work… it makes me sick… its like the latest thing they can extort money off well meaning but ill advised / poorly researched riders… i guess thats why i am happy to mention Steve… fair play… with him if it doesn;t work for you, you get your money back… **


Also i apologise for my terrible typing in general… i suck at it… my spelling isn’t too bad in fact…

Thanks for another great discusion point Dan.

he doesn’t need my defense, but, in his defense (anyway) pro cyclists come to their profession knowing, basically, nothing beyond milk is good and comes out of teats. that’s about what they’ve absorbed prior to someone noticing they can push their leg down over and over again better than some other guy.

here’s the problem. the people who are hired as the managers of these folks are themselves riders who went from the teat to the saddle, and learned nothing other than what their sense and intuition told them. i’ve heard some stories about what a DS has told those in his charge that border on some kind of malpractice.

so, if riders like horner have grown up taking counsel from guys who just grew up taking counsel from other guys, this is what is passed on. it seems to me that how to train, how to race, race tactics, and the day to day job of being a pro is what a DS knows. he knows it better than anybody. they’re experts at that. but, bike fit? pedal/shoe interface? he’s learning this stuff from guys who (like me) started cycling when we hammered nails into the bottoms of our shoes. a lot of water has passed under that bridge.

Dan,

I have a not too dissimilar pigeon-toed left foot. It keeps doing this despite heel wedges, varus wedges, cleat wedges etc. Managed to solve my right knee issues with a 3mm shim under the cleat. It works - it’s not pretty, however. I’m not sure if I can correct that left foot, I’m a little worried that more problems lie aead.

Any thoughts?

based on what I’ve seen, he doesn’t seem like the most aero wheel in the bike shop

I don’t know the whole story, but Chris would never get a bike fit all the years that I attended the radioshack camps, even though he always had fit related issues. The riders that embraced the opportunity received the attention they needed. I feel that it’s the rider’s responsibility to take the bull by the horns when there are fit related issues…often times, this isn’t the case and even though help is out there, they don’t take advantage of it, know where to find it, or receive bad advice. Fit camps can be useful, but it’s half marketing and half actual fitting. There needs to be an expert on staff or contracted to help throughout the season.

“Any thoughts?”

i am not the guy. especially not over the internet. but even then, i’m not the guy.

but what i would say is that the toe-in posture is something that seems to get thrust on a lot of riders who don’t ride that way, esp with the advent of outboard (external) bb bearings that take away heel clearance at the crank. it’s my sense that for some of those who have IT band problems on the bike, if the saddle’s not too tall, then one remaining cause is this. hence my admonition to consider widening stance width, so you can ride the way your feet want to ride and still have heel clearance.

i wonder if horner does much MTB riding and i wonder if he has the same injury on his mountain bike.

Chris Horner taught me everything I needed to race cyclocross.

Get ready to have the best 'cross season of your life here: http://vimeo.com/8165167

Brett

Years ago Davis Phinney had IT band but only on his road bike, he could ride his mtb withut issue. I had ITB for a while and remebered hearing about Davis, so I widened my stance and also went to shorter cranks. Pretty much instantly went away.

Of course now years later I haven’t had a re occurance and I think my current bike is just as narrow as it used to be so …

Funny you should mention MTB. I rode one for the first time in many years this weekend. I was decidedly duck-footed.

Going to check out the longer-spindled Dura-Ace pedals.

thanks!