Haggard now claims to have had a “lifelong sexual problem” (which I interpret in the context of current events to mean homosexuality).
I thought god-lovers believed that homosexuality is a choice? Haggard is either saying that he was born gay, or that he has for his entire life chosen to be gay (which I find hard to believe). Will be interesting to see how he explains this one.
“I thought god-lovers believed that homosexuality is a choice?”
If you had watched American Dad last night you would know that being gay is not a choice.
**If you had watched American Dad last night you would know that being gay is not a choice. **
Did they find a genetic component?
I thought god-lovers believed that homosexuality is a choice?
That’s because you’re ignorant.
Then please enlighten me. What do they believe?
Just found this (bet I can find more support for my ignorant position than you can the opposite):
http://www.ellisonresearch.com/mission.htm
In fact, 82% of all ministers agreed with the statement “homosexuality is a choice people make,” while 18% disagreed with it. Homosexuality was viewed as a choice by 94% of political conservatives, 79% of moderates, and 28% of liberals. Eighty-eight percent of evangelical ministers saw it as a choice, compared to 54% of mainline ministers.
What do they believe?
“They” haven’t formed a consensus any more monolithic than among the general population about* being* gay. I would be surprised if anything other than a very small minority believed that a prediliction towards homosexuality is in itself voluntary.
What “they” believe, I think almost universally, is that the gay lifestyle is a choice, and that engaging in a gay relationship is a choice, and actions like paying a gay prostitute for sex and meth are choices.
See?
From vatican.va Nonetheless, according to the teaching of the Church, men and women with homosexual tendencies “must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided”.(7) They are called, like other Christians, to live the virtue of chastity.(8) The homosexual inclination is however “objectively disordered”(9) and homosexual practices are “sins gravely contrary to chastity”.(10)
“82% of all ministers agreed with the statement “homosexuality is a choice people make,” while 18% disagreed with it. Homosexuality was viewed as a choice by 94% of political conservatives, 79% of moderates, and 28% of liberals. Eighty-eight percent of evangelical ministers saw it as a choice, compared to 54% of mainline ministers.”
I am confused. What scientific research have the ministers, conservatives, moderates and liberals (specifically mentioned above) done and what peer reviewed journals can I read this research in? I dont understand how taking a poll of people relates to factual evidence?
So what you’re saying is that everyone is heterosexual but some choose to live a gay lifestyle?
I’m not talking about factual evidence, I’m talking about what people believe. If you’re after factual evidence, I don’t think the religious community is a great target for your search.
" I’m not talking about factual evidence, I’m talking about what people believe."
Now that is classic. Please note that I am not in anyway bashing you, in all reality you have hit the nail on the head with that statement.
So what you’re saying is that everyone is heterosexual but some choose to live a gay lifestyle?
No, that’s not what I’m saying, and I am not sure I even want to know how you managed to come to think that I am.
The polling numbers for evangelical ministers might be making a liar out of me. I say might, because it isn’t clear to me that the ministers polled answered the question with homosexual orientation in mind, or homosexual behavior/lifestyle. If the former, I’m surprised, and I think it indicates culpable ignorance on their part.
We have some evangelical homophobes in here, I think. I wonder if any of them think homosexual orientation is a choice. Anyone?
“No, that’s not what I’m saying, and I am not sure I even want to know how you managed to come to think that I am.”
Then please, tell me exactly what you’re saying. Are you disagreeing with me that the common belief among Christians is that homosexuality is a choice?
“We have some evangelical homophobes in here, I think. I wonder if any of them think homosexual orientation is a choice. Anyone?”
Unless you’re doubting the existence of humans who think being gay is a choice, why does it matter than any of those humans frequent the ST board? Do some research online, you’ll find PLENTY of evangelicals (and many, many other religious entities) that believe homosexuality is a choice.
So being gay is an inclination - i.e. choice.
Am I reading that correctly?
Apparently, Doogie Howser has also chosen to be gay.
Neil Patrick Harris is gay and wants to quell any rumors to the contrary. “I am quite proud to say that I am a very content gay man living my life to the fullest,” Harris tells People magazine’s Web site.
Wasn’t it a choice for Anne Heche, for a while anyway.
Neil Patrick Harris is gay and wants to quell any rumors to the contrary. “I am quite proud to say that I am a very content gay man living my life to the fullest,” Harris tells People magazine’s Web site.
Does he have a movie or T.V show coming out?
On a related note, I would now like to make the following announcement,
“I am quite proud to say that I am a very content heterosexual man living my life to the fullest.”
Probably the same way that being hetero was a choice for Haggard.
So being gay is an inclination - i.e. choice.
Am I reading that correctly?
No. An inclination towards something is not a choice.
Then please, tell me exactly what you’re saying.
I thought I already did. I’m saying that homosexual orientation itself is not a choice, but acting on that orientation is.
Are you disagreeing with me that the common belief among Christians is that homosexuality is a choice?
I’m saying that the common belief among Christians is that homosexual behavior is a choice, and a sin. I don’t think it’s a common belief among Christians that the orientation itself is voluntary.
Unless you’re doubting the existence of humans who think being gay is a choice
I’m doubting that those humans constitute a majority of Christians.
why does it matter than any of those humans frequent the ST board? Do some research online, you’ll find PLENTY of evangelicals (and many, many other religious entities) that believe homosexuality is a choice.
Maybe, but I don’t know that I’d trust a lot of research online. Like I said, I think often there’s a conflation in the minds of those being polled and/or conducting the poll between orientation and behavior. We have, I’m pretty sure, some of those evangelicals available for further questions. Why not see what they actually think?
If you’re not curious, I am. Any evangelicals up in here think that homosexual orientation is a voluntary choice? Or have any of you heard a minister preach that it is?
So being gay is an inclination - i.e. choice.
Am I reading that correctly?
Doubtful. It seems that the position of the Church (of course, vitus could clear this up in a moment, but that’s not his style) is that some people are homosexual; the mechanism is not fully understood. It may be inherent or “learned”. Such people should be accepted, provided that they adhere to the Church position that homosexual acts are forbidden (read: chastity). The “choice” is whether to act on the homosexuality.