What are your thoughts on Chinese brands who make knockoff frames? Right now the Winspace T1500 seems to be all over Youtube, at least it is all over the suggested videos I get. Best I can tell it’s actually a knockoff Venge, at least the shape of the headtube and where the seatstays attach to the seattube seem to be pretty similar to me. On one hand, it would be awesome to get a Venge for a lot cheaper, but also I hate seeing companies that spend all the money and time in development get ripped off, and then everyone online goes on and on about how amazing the chinese brands are for being so cheap, even though that’s largely because they didn’t have to spend the money in development. Assuming they sell them under their own brand name, at what point is something like this theft of intellectual property? I’m assuming you can’t actually patent a frame shape, so does Specialized have no recourse in this case?
It isn’t theft of intellectual property.
??
If it’s a copy then surely it IS theft of IP ?
China has different laws regarding IP, so I don’t think Specialized or others would have much luck in court.
What everyone else said. Theft.
What are your thoughts on Chinese brands who make knockoff frames? Right now the Winspace T1500 seems to be all over Youtube, at least it is all over the suggested videos I get. Best I can tell it’s actually a knockoff Venge, at least the shape of the headtube and where the seatstays attach to the seattube seem to be pretty similar to me. On one hand, it would be awesome to get a Venge for a lot cheaper, but also I hate seeing companies that spend all the money and time in development get ripped off, and then everyone online goes on and on about how amazing the chinese brands are for being so cheap, even though that’s largely because they didn’t have to spend the money in development. Assuming they sell them under their own brand name, at what point is something like this theft of intellectual property? I’m assuming you can’t actually patent a frame shape, so does Specialized have no recourse in this case?
Like the Chinese wheels, way over priced, PITA if there are warranty issues and resale is horrendous. $1700 for a TT frame from Yoleo, you have to then add groupset, wheels, tyres, pedals, saddle, handlebars, you’d be lucky to keep it under $5000 for what is effectively a worthless bike. You’d have to sell the parts, as a complete bike it’s virtually unsellable. I say that because any Chinese wheels and bikes are our various local FB bike marketplace sites, just sit there for months with zero interest.
??
If it’s a copy then surely it IS theft of IP ?
Copying something that isn’t patented, isn’t theft.
Maybe not patented. But how about copyrighted?
Certainly in the UK there’s counterfeit laws, and they don’t just cover the branding.
I know the clothing world has a
Near impossible time enforcing counterfeit / design copying.
But some do try to stop it.
Maybe not patented. But how about copyrighted?
Certainly in the UK there’s counterfeit laws, and they don’t just cover the branding.
I know the clothing world has a
Near impossible time enforcing counterfeit / design copying.
But some do try to stop it.
A bicycle frame can’t be copyrighted.
IMO Winspace T1500 has little to do with a Venge.
So it’s not a knockoff, just another less known asian brand frame.
These days most of the bikes, cars, etc… look alike for many reasons, computer design, trends, etc…
LOuis 
There are some subtle differences, maybe you’re right. I have a hard time believing it’s completely coincidental
Life’s too short to ride a POS Chinese knock-off.
Wow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMgvvKt4RDk
These guys did a pretty thourough inspection of the frame and ended up thinking otherwise.
Louis
Have you had a bad experience with a Chinese frame?
My first few road bikes are from Dengfu. Super Cheap, painted however I like and I really liked
I since upgraded to a real bike, a tarmac - and it’s night and day different. I don’t know how to explain it… stiffer, corners better, more lively … more sure exactly but just “betterâ€.
I would have no problem buying a new Dengfu or recommending it … but it’s probably not like you’re just getting the “same†bike for cheaper. Just one that looks similar
It’s all Chinese carbon and much of the time it’s made in the same factory. I went to a Dengfu a few years back and performance wise it’s identical to the Giant’s, Cervelos, and Specialized bikes i’ve ridden. Frankly i’d feel like a sucker paying full price for Chinese carbon and think the profit margins these companies make is criminal.
You realize there’s a lot more to what goes into a bike frame than just the manufacturing, right?
It’s all Chinese carbon and much of the time it’s made in the same factory. I went to a Dengfu a few years back and performance wise it’s identical to the Giant’s, Cervelos, and Specialized bikes i’ve ridden. Frankly i’d feel like a sucker paying full price for Chinese carbon and think the profit margins these companies make is criminal.
I don’t have a chinese CF frame, but I’d bet I’d feel the same way if I rode one - I wouldn’t expect a huge difference, and the price of the chinese frame would be a LOT lower.
Unfortunately, that also comes with some real risk if anything does go wrong. I’m not talking catastrophic break-in-half failure that people use to speculate about all the time (definitely NOT reality - the chinese carbon really holds up contrary to all the fearmongering), but there will be next to no meaningful customer service, if parts are damaged in shipping, or if something’s slightly defective, or you need help with compatibility, or even crash replacement policies like for wheels. Or if you do end up in a rare catastrophic failure that you get seriously injured, and need to sue a responsible company to hold them accountable god forbid. You don’t get any of that with the chinese CF companies (yet) and I’d argue it’s worth a lot. Especially if you have a crash-replacement policy.
That’s also generally BS. Chinese, Taiwanes parts are covered with warranty the same way other products from any part of the world.
I had the best customer service from parts ordered directly in China, received replacement parts in less than a week (all the way across the globe!). Wich I can’t say from many, many known big brand manufacturers.
Louis
Always wanted one painted super cool. Maybe painted myself with plastidip like blood splatter. But never pulled the trigger.