I just did the Rottnest Channel Swim and it went pretty well. Happy with my time, was hoping to sneak under 6 hours, but got a bit seasick again, ended up with 6.10. My training consisted of around 30-35k a week, mixed up with 3 squad sessions and then longer sessions by myself, building through the program with the maximum being 10k (in the pool). I couldn’t stand those 8-10k sets, I found them to be pretty beneficial, but would be dreading them for weeks. So I’m wondering for next year, having a chat with my coach and changing things up a bit. Doing similar volume, or more, but shorter sets i.e nothing more than 6k. The race is 20k.
There are 5 10k OW races during the season, so I could try and do more of those. I only did 1 this season. A 10k OWS is a much better option than 10k in the pool, although I reckon the pool set is better bang for your buck. Thoughts??
The nice thing about 10k OW is you don’t have the turns. I’ve always found my lower back starts to hurt in long OW when I don’t train OW much before the race - flip turns help because you change spine position a bit. I actually think if you’re doing pool workouts, getting the 10k OW races and no 10k pool swims would be fine.
What if you did some days of 10k pool but as doubles?
I think you got hurt in the training at some point IIRC from the Fish Threads. Updates on that?
The nice thing about 10k OW is you don’t have the turns. I’ve always found my lower back starts to hurt in long OW when I don’t train OW much before the race - flip turns help because you change spine position a bit. I actually think if you’re doing pool workouts, getting the 10k OW races and no 10k pool swims would be fine.
What if you did some days of 10k pool but as doubles?
I think you got hurt in the training at some point IIRC from the Fish Threads. Updates on that?
10k as 2 x 5k would be fine.
I hurt my shoulder after a 10k race. I rested it for 3 days and then back in the pool with lighter sets, using PB and no paddles. Was able to train fully after a week, with pain gradually diminishing over about 6/7 weeks?
Massive respect to you. That’s a gutsy swim
Most of the people I know wouldn’t be doing 8-10k sets in the pool (asides from the 100x100 sort of stuff on nye). I know a few sub 5 rotto swimmers and they would do 5-6 in the pool (as the longer sessions) most in the 4-5.5 range. But they did long OW swims, building from 2-4 hours, with the last big swim around 15k 3 weeks or so before to nail nutrition and just mental game that they can be out in the water for that long period of time. Then the last 3 weeks just keeping injury free for the race.
I haven’t had detailed chats with them about their training but this is just my impression
I think they probably hated the long swims as well but just got to get that shit done!
I think they do whatever 10k ow races are available.
So yes shorter pool sets seem fine, but prob worth doing the longer ows swims (like an 8, 12 and 15).
Massive respect to you. That’s a gutsy swim
x2, I forgot to say that!
I’ve trained a bunch of marathon and ultra-marathon swimmers on a lot less. We’d typically peak at as much as 35-40k in a week. But the longest single workout would be a 5k and we never really did any repeats over about 150. Average workout would be about 3.5k, but closer to the race we’d do doubles.
Careful with the long, continuous swims. Your risk of injury will go way up and it’s one of the more ineffective ways to train. Swimming isn’t running.
One of the most impactful things you could do would be to get a solid S&C program.
I hope this helps. Good luck with your training and racing and if you have any other questions, let me know.
Tim
Are your mains generally up to around 3000? In the range of 1800-3000? I know it depends on lots of factors, recovery, type of set etc
Massive respect to you. That’s a gutsy swim
Most of the people I know wouldn’t be doing 8-10k sets in the pool (asides from the 100x100 sort of stuff on nye). I know a few sub 5 rotto swimmers and they would do 5-6 in the pool (as the longer sessions) most in the 4-5.5 range. But they did long OW swims, building from 2-4 hours, with the last big swim around 15k 3 weeks or so before to nail nutrition and just mental game that they can be out in the water for that long period of time. Then the last 3 weeks just keeping injury free for the race.
I haven’t had detailed chats with them about their training but this is just my impression
I think they probably hated the long swims as well but just got to get that shit done!
I think they do whatever 10k ow races are available.
So yes shorter pool sets seem fine, but prob worth doing the longer ows swims (like an 8, 12 and 15).
Cheers!
Yeah I’d be keen to know what kind of sets they were doing. A few peeps I train with went sub 5 doing the same program as me, they’re national swimmers 30 years younger haha. They were saying that when they competed at nationals they were doing twice the volume, so closer to 70k a week, but very different sets. I’m sure if you’re hitting 40k+ a week and only doing 5k sets you’d still go well.
Massive respect to you. That’s a gutsy swim
x2, I forgot to say that!
Thanks 
I’ve trained a bunch of marathon and ultra-marathon swimmers on a lot less. We’d typically peak at as much as 35-40k in a week. But the longest single workout would be a 5k and we never really did any repeats over about 150. Average workout would be about 3.5k, but closer to the race we’d do doubles.
Careful with the long, continuous swims. Your risk of injury will go way up and it’s one of the more ineffective ways to train. Swimming isn’t running.
One of the most impactful things you could do would be to get a solid S&C program.
I hope this helps. Good luck with your training and racing and if you have any other questions, let me know.
Tim
Yeah I’ve had shoulder issues in the past and they don’t like 10k sets.
Most of our sets have longer repeats, 400s+. Longer sets have 1-2km repeats. Some days we do 100s/200s.
Main sets for the majority of time are in the 1500-2000 range depending on when the race is going to be. Then as we get closer we’ll get in 2500-3500 yard sets, but typically with a lot of intensity. You can either go the volume or intensity/race pace route. The latter you can get to the same place on a lot less volume.
The longest repeat I’ve done with these guys has been a 300 once. 99% of the workouts are 150 or less. I’ve trained people to swim 40k on that type of training. I had a guy swim the length of Lake Tahoe (35km) this summer and he did it in one of the faster times of the past few years.
Main sets for the majority of time are in the 1500-2000 range depending on when the race is going to be. Then as we get closer we’ll get in 2500-3500 yard sets, but typically with a lot of intensity. You can either go the volume or intensity/race pace route. The latter you can get to the same place on a lot less volume.
That would be interesting to change things up and see how I go. Rottnest is in feb and the open water season starts October. If I just stick to shorter sets, I’ll have some idea how I’m tracking as I’ll do 5/10k races.
That’s the general outline of how I train marathon/ultra-marathon swimmers. But it also includes a lot of different pieces of specialized gear to target aspects of the stroke and fitness. I can’t stress this part enough, a strength and conditioning program is a significant portion of it. And we do a lot of meditation.
If you have any other questions, let me know.
Tim
That’s the general outline of how I train marathon/ultra-marathon swimmers. But it also includes a lot of different pieces of specialized gear to target aspects of the stroke and fitness. I can’t stress this part enough, a strength and conditioning program is a significant portion of it. And we do a lot of meditation.
If you have any other questions, let me know.
Tim
Cool thanks
Thanks for the reply - definitely agree with that. Sets less than 2000 (such as a big 50s set or some 100s) let me increase my feel in the stroke and are good for awareness on making small adjustments as you go along - lets you internalise what going faster than your aerobic pace feels like and is great. Absolutely vital. When I started doing lots of 50s about 12 months ago I really quickly noticed how much swim strength it gives you
On the other end of the spectrum I have read some interviews with a swimmer alex kostich (big OW swimmer) and he talks about, during his preparation periods, doing 40-60k but with less intensity (I would expect that his hard sets would be around 1500-3000) but with lots of aerobic work. I’ve seen different accounts, but the most recent one is 4 to 6 times a week at on average 8 grand a session. No doubt that if your shoulders can handle that (as an adult) you are going to get fit as a fiddle swimming that much over a 12-16 week preparation. Though a draw back with this type of approach is you lose touch with your 200 pace and being able to drop the hammer, burn out mentally if you don’t process it the right way and getting slack and not progressing your sets. Have you come across any other top ows adults doing that type of volume or heard of alex?
Didn’t train with them all the time, but it was a mix of the usual sorts of things. you have probably done all these sets below ha!
A couple of sets that I can recall doing with the sub 5 swimmers are below. Not included time repeats. Most of the sets were done less than 400s. The constant / repeated sets I recall are once a week a long threshold 100s set (up to 3k) where people are really hurting by the end, a really hard short rest set (really hurting to hang on) and a long descending set 8-10x400 where by the end you are giving your best effort (also really hurting by the end).
Also I think they mostly tried to swim these sets, but then throw the PB paddles on at the end if they are struggling to hold or doing a time repeat above their limit
100x100 on nye
1-2-3-4-5-5-4-3-2-1 with the odd or the even being 10 seconds per 100 faster than the odd or even
3x300,6x150,6x100 (all on very tight or descending intervals with a 100 recovery in between) and then a 100 max
25 x 200 (desc each block of 5 with a swim recovery between)
10x400 descending
25-30 x 100 broken up as 12x100, 9x100, 6x100 etc with different gears. Aerobic gear 10 seconds rest, faster gear 25 seconds rest and top gear 40 seconds rest (really heaving on these ones). Trying to drop 2-3 seconds each gear
3x200, 4x100, 4x50 twice through descending
I am sure they did the really long work occasionally - 25x400 and the like but that wasn’t every weekend and only in the final stages doing the long long swims. Most often they would find someone else to do that kind of swimming with