Wow SuperDave, thanks for the chance to give real input to Felt.
Yes, while many on this forum will say sew-ups only, the fact is many people are using clinchers and the quality is greatly improved. Having the option would push many people to Felt in a feature comparison with another company.
I’m a big believer that the dealer/customer will want to go with what they like. Especially at the level that the B2 is at. However, including a quality tire from Felt, will allow someone to feel confident putting some miles on the bike before having to buy new rubber.
Again, that option can only work in the favor of Felt. Makes it feel more like a custom bike when you can order with what you want up front.
All of these would sway the customer in my opinion. Cannondale, Cervelo, Guru or any other maker.
Personally I have run on sew ups and clinchers off and on and I do not see any advantage. My times have been relatively consistent from 110psi clinchers through 200psi sewups. Clinchers seem to last longer
Why spec the thing with racing wheels in the first place? Sure, it looks cool, but wheels are personal - some dig clinchers, some tubulars… Not to mention the added cost of entry to the bike. If I wanted a Dura Ace tri bike, I wouldn’t buy the B-2 because it would a) blow my budget, and b) make me feel a bit foolish for training on $1000 carbon wheels. I would have to buy trainers.
If you are going to spec trainers for it, then spec clinchers. Economically it just doesn’t make sense to spec it with tubulars, does it? I would think that demand would be too small to justify the complexity of offering it as an option. Tires really don’t matter much to me on that bike as I would replace them anyway with either Tufo tubulars or Veloflex Pave’s and relegate whatever came with it to the indoor trainer.
What you could do is offer a promo on Zipp wheels - like $200 off with the purchase of a B-2. This way people can get whatever wheels they want - tub or clincher, 404 or 909, or none at all…
You LBS can build you a B2 anything you want as we offer the frameset for sale as well. The complete bike was no holds barred out of the box race bike.
Build the bike, thread on the pedals, ride 112 miles.
i think it’s awesome that you guys are offering 404’s on the B2. i myself am planning on getting a TT/tri bike this year (i’ve been drooling over the b2)…i have a road bike. granted i will use the TT bike primarly for racing, and if i want to train on it then all i have to do is switch my mavic open pro’s from my road bike onto the felt…simple…i always wondered why these sick expensive tri-bikes came with training wheels…isn’t it a racing bike???it’s a very good way to get race wheels for cheaper if your getting a complete bike. i do think a clincher tubular option would be great.
What is the price going to be for just the frameset alone?
As for the wheel choice, I agree that for the amount the full bike is going to cost, the more choices you are able to offer people the more they will appreciate it. You might as well just let the consumer/dealer decide on the tires with all the different options available.
Frame set + group set and choice of type race wheels.
Incidently, slightly off the topic, I would literally buy the B2 from my local bike shop this week if it had bidon attachment ability on the downtube. Got the cash ready to go. I don’t understand why companies don’t put them there - it takes out so many options for the customers. I am a bit frustrated as I really wanted that bike and that is the only thing that is making me consider the other frames my LBS stocks. I am not the only one according to the bike shop and other people I’ve spoken to, many are turned away because of this exact reason.
A steel steer will cost me COMFORT, and weight and that itself will equate to time. What issues have there been with Asian production of full carbon forks of late? We both know almost all the forks produced today are from Taiwan and China. Save your breath on the ease of assembly, I am sure you have cut a steel steer, or am I crazy to think you allow for any level of adjustability. The compression plug is a wonderful thing, opposed to the star nut of yester year needed for steel. Furthermore the toxic sweet of your average triathlete will do a wonderful job of corrosion on the steel steer which will in turn cause the need for a new headset before the years end, especially with the integrated system you are using.
How will you release the bike in 04 if 10 speed bar end levers are so far out? Will you begin with 9 speed?
IMO A bike for $4G should not come pre-built in a box from China!!! And the spec should be up to the consumer.
I was talking to Ves Mandaric at Yaqui about the water bottle bosses the other day. Bosses on an aero down tube take a lot of time to install and it is pretty complicated because of the narrow cross section. If you look, Cervelo only installs them on the road frames and the P3. Not even sure Cannondale does it on their new frames.
I had Ves install one on my new bike, but it cost extra.
Any performance advantage of tubulars over clinchers is minute at best. No OEM bike should come with tubulars. I think the best spec. would be Velocity Deeps on Shimano hubs, but if you insist on having Zipps they should be 303 or 404 clinchers.
Tires don’t matter much. Specify something like Vred. Fortezzas but allow the cutomer to switch to something else if they like.
I love disks, but I’m part of a shrinking minority. I don’t know that I would offer it as an “option”, but I’d offer a deal of 20% off a 909 if purchased with a complete bike.
I don’t think it would make a huge difference wither way. Personally, I like Felts way better than Cannondales.
The Felt B2 is a great bike. It is definitely ready to race out of the box. An option for clinchers or tubular is a great idea. A carbon steer tube fork would have been good. I will buy the B2 F/F if I can’t come up with the money for the DA 700 this winter. If I do buy, I will put a fork on with a carbon steer tube.
As far as the other parts are concerned, most good bike shops will let you switch out parts. If I were to buy this bike from my shop they will let me customize any part of the bike.
Frame set + group set and choice of type race wheels."
Even though I own 2 Felt bikes (0ne road, one tri) and a set of 404 Clinchers, I realize that there are a lot of folks out there (like me) who prefer to pick their own wheelsets, components, forks, bars, seatposts, stems, etc, etc. I can’t imagine trying to cater to all the variations of needs and wants for each consumer. I guess that’s why the old way of buying a frameset and then building it up to suit ones needs through your local bike shop is still the best way to put a bike together. That said, I believe Felt makes the best bikes out there and I really want a B2 (but I want a DA more).
This is just my humble O, but I’m not going to be wishy-washy about it, so I’ll expect some flames.
If the B2 is being marketed to someone who wants to “unbox it, put on pedals, and ride 112 miles” then it should come with high quality clinchers on high quality rims.
Tubulars are for gearheads. The vast majority of people who are getting into triathlon now are not gearheads, and they’re not getting into the sport to learn how to work on their bike. Tubulars are too complicated for most people who are ready to invest in a tri bike today. Anyone who wants tubulars on a new bike either already has a set of tubular rims and tires or will have a quasi-religious view of exactly what they want. You’ll never make those people happy with anything stock.
The demo of people getting into triathlon seems to be very balanced between the sexes, but the people who ride tubulars are mostly men (because they’re gearheads). Selling a bike that comes with tubulars is going to turn off a lot of women who are not gearheads and just want to ride a good Tri bike.
It might be interesting to offer Tufos on clincher rims. It would be a differentiator from other manufacturers that the bike shop can easily explain to someone who is in their second or third year of triathlon: “a simple tubular tire that fits on a regular rim.” People do believe for whatever reason that tubulars are “better” than regular tires, but don’t want the hassle. Tufos are very appealing for that reason – I’ll be using a set next season. If someone is trying to decide between a sexy B2 and some other sexy Tri bike, that’s an easy to understand difference that might tip the decision to Felt.
Let the dealer substitute replacement rims/tires for those people who want tubulars, and buy the stock rims/tires back from the dealers to help them offer a competitive price. My gut says you’ll find less than a 20% substitution rate.
I like the idea of specing that bike with racing wheels. If someone is buying a bike in that price range, they probably have a few sets of training wheels sitting around the house that they could use for training. The only minor catch would be that no one will have spare 10 speed Shimano wheels, so they will also have to buy a set of Shimano 10 speed training wheels or a conversion kit (if available) for their existing wheels.
Tubular/Clincher/Disk
The only course where a rider should not use a rear Zipp disk would be one where they were not allowed, so I would provide the option of going with the 909s. Clincher option: pair of 404 clinchers, tubular option: 909 Disk rear, tubular front.
One risk to speccing tubulars is that your dealers will need to glue them on. Many customers do not know how to do this properly and many dealers refuse to glue tubulars on.
Shimano 10 speed
Why waste your time with Shimano 10 speed. Campy 10 speed is well proven, lighter, and smoother. (Than at least Shimano 9 speed, I have not ridden Shimano 10 speed.) Campy cranks are better looking as well— The Dura Ace 10 speed crank is the cycling equivalent of the Pontiac Aztek.
First off, let me say the new b2 is a very sexy looking machine. Looks to be a good price point (though I’m still looking for a bike company with free bikes)
First question: yes, give the option between tubulars and clinchers. Triathletes are usually less picky, but I know a lot of bikers turned tri-geeks that only ride tubies. Choice is good.
Second: The best clinchers I’ve ever ridden were the Panaracer Elite Triathlons tires that came standered on my Kilo. I’ve since blown them out and switched to michelins (still good tires, just not the best.) If you pick solid clinchers nobody will complain. (If you go with the tubie option maybe try the new Zipp tires)
Third: A disc as an option is just fine. Again, choice is good.
Fourth: The one way the cannondale has got it all over you is that their Zipps come with some very nice custom blue decals, while yours seem to just have stock sticks. I realize the color is pretty close, but if you could maybe get Zipp to tweak the font (to matchh the font on the frame), or add some sort of small felt logo to the wheels it’ll look like the wheels are supposed to be there (not an after thought used to sway the competition.)
Again, my beef is small, I’m just very much into color coordination and uniformity. You’ve got a first class line up this year. Good Job!
As the theme has sort of been throughout, options are always good. If you were going to go one way or the other, I’d rather have tubulars over clinchers. Just personally, I’d rather race on a tubular set and I’d probably buy a set of cheap training wheels to train on for most of my riding.
If the B2 will be going for “well less” (not sure what that means) than $4k and the Cannondale seems to be shooting for $5k, that would sway me plenty. There seems to be a good number more Cannondale retailers than Felt retailers, so I’m guessing it’ll be more of an availability issue than anything else.
Thank you for the comments Trust, you are certainly one of our frame and fork customers, not a complete bike one. This type of feedback is invaluable. Some things are simply unrealistic in terms of production. With deep carbon blades on the fork and a carbon aerobar, i don’t think there is much comfort gain with carbon steerer on this 18 pound bike. We’ve had no such durability issues with our headset, even with the caustic stationary trainer induced build of of “tri-sweat” onto the steel steerer tube.
Marc K, Record9Ti, we had a Full Record Carbon bike last year, it was very very nice, but the masses buy Dura Ace. I’m a big Campy fan too. I know that you think even the F1X cross bike should come with Campy. And on another note, I’m glad those prototype Projext X Profile bars are still in one piece!
Having ANY options can be very expensive, and we don’t want to approach the $5000 price level. The issue with the wheels was brought up to me by several of our triathlon friendly stores. They requested a tubular option. Some going as far to say they outsell the tubular wheeled bike 20:1 over clinchers. I’d never suggest it should be one or the other. I know many consumers and tire makers wish tubulars would just go away. The majority of B2s sold will be with clinchers, but if there is a market there for the tubular versions, I think the option should be pursued. Regarding the stickers, what if the dealer offered to replace the stock Cannondale clinchers with a set of Zipp 909s. How would that dealer sell the left over “Cannondale Zipps” Wouldn’t they be tainted? Using an off the shelf Zipp, allows them to go back on the shelf if need be. Make sense?
That is how the B2 is set up now. Do you think having the option of the tubular will hurt the product? Clinchers are simple and the Hutchinson Carbon Comp tires are great as well. I acknowledge that Tufo, Ritchey, Conti, Vittoria, Vred, Veloflex, Michelin, etc all make great tires as well. If we offered the tubular wheel, that spec change would be from Zipp, the tire and tube change would be from another vendor and that would get complex. For the tubular customer, I’d expect that they have a strong preference for a particlar tire, so we could leave that choice up to them, and leave the aptly suited Hutch Carb. Comps in the box for use on their training wheels.