So the clincher wins by a hair. However, the Crono CS tubular soundly beats the Conti TT and the Turbo Cotton. I imagine a wider version of this tire would beat them all.
A few notes:
The Vittoria CS clincher was mounted with a 10-year old Michelin 18-20c latex tube, known as “Old Greenie”
The tubular is spec’ed as 20C. It measures around 20.5mm.
The wattage for the CS clincher was lower than in previous trials because I lost 5 pounds and switched to a TT bike.
The tubular was glued on with either shellac or Mastik 1 (after 10 years I forgot)
The tubular is mounted on a Zipp 808, the clincher on a generic semi-aero 30mm deep rim.
Yeah, but it seems nobody can actually mount a CS clincher. That’s gotta be a mark against.
I’ve been able to do it plenty of times now. And I suck at mounting tires (and just about anything vaguely mechanical). I do use tire levers most of the time, but have managed it without once or twice. The Park levers with the metal inside are a godsend. I kept breaking the other ones.
Sorry to ask a dumb question, but could you clarify if your Corsa is the TLR version (the tubeless ready tire). If so, can this tire be used with a latex tube on a non-tubeless rim (older HED Jet disc wheel)?
Sorry to ask a dumb question, but could you clarify if your Corsa is the TLR version (the tubeless ready tire). If so, can this tire be used with a latex tube on a non-tubeless rim (older HED Jet disc wheel)?
Yes it is the TLR version. And yes I am using it with a latex tube on a non-tubeless rim. I should have clarified that in the original post. I’ve updated it to reflect that.
Yeah, but it seems nobody can actually mount a CS clincher. That’s gotta be a mark against.
I’ve been able to do it plenty of times now. And I suck at mounting tires (and just about anything vaguely mechanical). I do use tire levers most of the time, but have managed it without once or twice. The Park levers with the metal inside are a godsend. I kept breaking the other ones.
I’ve broken the Park levers on a couple of tubeless tires in trying to get them off a tubeless-ready rim…not the metal portion, but at the plastic tip right where the internal steel section ends. So, be wary still. I seem to have more difficulty with the removal than the installations on those combos (which doesn’t bode well for field repairs requiring bead removal)
I’ve also now resorted to old-school steel only levers for those tires :-/
Yeah, but it seems nobody can actually mount a CS clincher. That’s gotta be a mark against.
I’ve been able to do it plenty of times now. And I suck at mounting tires (and just about anything vaguely mechanical). I do use tire levers most of the time, but have managed it without once or twice. The Park levers with the metal inside are a godsend. I kept breaking the other ones.
I’ve broken the Park levers on a couple of tubeless tires in trying to get them off a tubeless-ready rim…not the metal portion, but at the plastic tip right where the internal steel section ends. So, be wary still. I seem to have more difficulty with the removal than the installations on those combos (which doesn’t bode well for field repairs requiring bead removal)
I’ve also now resorted to old-school steel only levers for those tires :-/
Wow, which tubeless ready rim? I found it to be a world of difference popping them on and off a tubeless ready rim (once dropped into the center channel all the way around) vs. a Swiss Side Hadron. The Hadron is the hardest rim I have ever had to get tires on and off.
Yeah, but it seems nobody can actually mount a CS clincher. That’s gotta be a mark against.
I’ve been able to do it plenty of times now. And I suck at mounting tires (and just about anything vaguely mechanical). I do use tire levers most of the time, but have managed it without once or twice. The Park levers with the metal inside are a godsend. I kept breaking the other ones.
I’ve broken the Park levers on a couple of tubeless tires in trying to get them off a tubeless-ready rim…not the metal portion, but at the plastic tip right where the internal steel section ends. So, be wary still. I seem to have more difficulty with the removal than the installations on those combos (which doesn’t bode well for field repairs requiring bead removal)
I’ve also now resorted to old-school steel only levers for those tires :-/
Wow, which tubeless ready rim? I found it to be a world of difference popping them on and off a tubeless ready rim (once dropped into the center channel all the way around) vs. a Swiss Side Hadron. The Hadron is the hardest rim I have ever had to get tires on and off.
The Hed Jet+ Blacks, which have a good center channel. One thing that may have contributed to the lever failure in this case, and this is one of the few drawbacks of that rim, is that the edges of the machined grooves in the brake track extend quite close to the end of the bead lip. This means that those edges tend to cut a groove in a plastic lever when drawn across them laterally, like when removing a tire bead.
I’m about to say f it and order some of these vittoria cs’s. I don’t care how long it takes me to get on one if I’m saving 10+w it’s worth it. If I flat I’m done anyway so don’t care about dealing with it on course.
My question about this tire goes back to the discussion of it being aero or not, some are concerned with the ribbing on the tread? Do we have any definitive testing data on this?
I’m about to say f it and order some of these vittoria cs’s. I don’t care how long it takes me to get on one if I’m saving 10+w it’s worth it. If I flat I’m done anyway so don’t care about dealing with it on course.
My question about this tire goes back to the discussion of it being aero or not, some are concerned with the ribbing on the tread? Do we have any definitive testing data on this?
10+ watts? What are you comparing it to?
I should be able to roll one this weekend, so we can get another data point as to how it compares directly to a Turbo Cotton, SS, and GPTT w/latex tube.
Any aerodynamic shortfalls for tires of that construction are going to be at higher yaw angles, so the question then becomes “How fast are you?”
I’m about to say f it and order some of these vittoria cs’s. I don’t care how long it takes me to get on one if I’m saving 10+w it’s worth it. If I flat I’m done anyway so don’t care about dealing with it on course.
My question about this tire goes back to the discussion of it being aero or not, some are concerned with the ribbing on the tread? Do we have any definitive testing data on this?
10+ watts? What are you comparing it to?
I should be able to roll one this weekend, so we can get another data point as to how it compares directly to a Turbo Cotton, SS, and GPTT w/latex tube.
Any aerodynamic shortfalls for tires of that construction are going to be at higher yaw angles, so the question then becomes “How fast are you?”
Jens tests at 100 psi had the V CS at 71w & the conti TT at 83w. Then at 120 psi V CS at 55w & TT at 61w.
So at lower pressures it seems it’s even better. Considering I run my tires at 85-90 psi I may be saving 15w?!?!
And I’ll be at 24-25mph. But my A race’s course this spring is notorious for quartering to and quartering away winds.
If I do go with the vittoria cs, should I just go tubeless? This would be on wheels only used for racing, so don’t have to swap tires or anything in between races.
I’m about to say f it and order some of these vittoria cs’s. I don’t care how long it takes me to get on one if I’m saving 10+w it’s worth it. If I flat I’m done anyway so don’t care about dealing with it on course.
My question about this tire goes back to the discussion of it being aero or not, some are concerned with the ribbing on the tread? Do we have any definitive testing data on this?
10+ watts? What are you comparing it to?
I should be able to roll one this weekend, so we can get another data point as to how it compares directly to a Turbo Cotton, SS, and GPTT w/latex tube.
Any aerodynamic shortfalls for tires of that construction are going to be at higher yaw angles, so the question then becomes “How fast are you?”
Jens tests at 100 psi had the V CS at 71w & the conti TT at 83w. Then at 120 psi V CS at 55w & TT at 61w.
So at lower pressures it seems it’s even better. Considering I run my tires at 85-90 psi I may be saving 15w?!?!
And I’ll be at 24-25mph. But my A race’s course this spring is notorious for quartering to and quartering away winds.
Careful…the wattage he reports is the “raw” wattage from the roller testing. They don’t correspond to what you would experience on the road. The difference will be a fraction of that due to the “amplification” factor of the rollers.
Tubeless or not? If they’re just on race wheels, and if your flat plan is just “if I flat, I’m done” as you say…then why not set up tubeless?
Careful…the wattage he reports is the “raw” wattage from the roller testing. They don’t correspond to what you would experience on the road. The difference will be a fraction of that due to the “amplification” factor of the rollers.
Tubeless or not? If they’re just on race wheels, and if your flat plan is just “if I flat, I’m done” as you say…then why not set up tubeless?
All of my races are sprints and olympics… but mostly sprints where if I flat it doesn’t matter if it’s one minute or twenty minutes to fix: I’m off the podium. As such I’ve considered going tubeless and Vittoria’s CS certainly seems appealing as it appears I’d pick up ~5 watts over my current GP4000S II + latex tubes combo and 10 second gains add up in a sprint…
but…
My experience thus far with road tubeless makes me really wonder if those 10 seconds are actually worth it.
