I am looking to upgrade my bike for next season, and am looking at options. I have a Trek E11 that has served me well for 10 years, and I’m not even 100% sure that I want to get rid of this for a new ride. I’ve had a good look around the site, and I know there is a dedicated thread for the P5, but hoping that someone can give me some cold hard facts to help sway my decision either way.
I would probably get the Trek SC as I have always ridden Trek, but I have a SRM powermeter built into a Rotor 3d+ crank which won’t fit in the Trek. Yes, I could sell it, get another pwoermeter and then get the Trek, but this is likely to cost money as I won’t get back anything like what I paid for the SRM 18 months ago.
So, to my question.
I am looking at the Cervelo P3, P5 three and P5 six.
It is likely the P5 six is going to stretch my budget too far, but I tend to hold onto my bikes for a decade or so (as I have with the E11), so if there were a good enough reason to opt for the P5-six then I could perhaps take a loan.
QUESTIONS:
What is the speed difference between the P5 six and the three? I am assuming it is going to be tiny, but from what I have read on here, using aftermarket tri bars and not having the fairing can cause extra drag? Is there any data available?
What is the speed difference between a P5 - six/three and the P3? The P3 comes in around the same cost as the P5-three in the UK anyway. If the P3 is 98% of the bike that the P5 is, then I may opt for this.
What gains am I likely to see over my E11 from 10 years back? I have read the P5 white paper, and searched around the internet. They say 22 - 44 secs per 40km over other super bikes, and more again over yesterdays technology. Do we know how true this is? I know marketing departments exist to sell bikes. In real world, amateur athlete (i.e. not going 30mph over an Ironman) conditions, is the P5 worth the money? I am a 5 - 5h15 Ironman cyclist, so fast, but not special. Averaging around 22mph, is the P5 going to blow the P3 off the road, or am I better saving the money?
I would be putting my existing kit on the bike - Zipp 999 wheelset and DA 7900 components. I would need to buy an aero bar for either the P3 or the P5-three as my existing bar is very clunky and old.
Any recommendations and real world tests/data etc gratefully received. I must say I probably prefer the look of the P3 over the P5-three from a vanity point of view…
The brake fairing may be as little as 0 drag improvement. The fork saves a couple of seconds per 40k. The aerobar is the big difference, but you could put a very good bar/stem combo on a P5-3 and get very close.
The P3 is very close to the same as the P5-3. The only major differences are the hidden rear brake and extended airfoil at the seat tube, and better cable routing. If you get a P3 with hydraulic brakes you can run that brake cable through the top tube to get the same cable routing, though it is a bit of a custom job.
Kinda depends, if you E11 has a top notch aerobar,stem, and brake levers on it and youve managed to hide all the cables and are using aero brakes instead of regular calipers, then you might only save a minute or so per ironman. But assuming a more average setup, could be 3 to 5 minutes on a flat course.
There aren’t any real world field tests of your particular bike vs a p5, but there are similar comparisons, like these two comparing older aluminum Cervelos to newer carbon ones:
I would go with the P3, a good aerobar, and good tires. That is a no excuses top notch setup and you are fast enough that it could push you up into some pretty competitive cycling I bet.
Thanks for the reply. I will take a look at those articles - have read similar ones comparing the P5 to older tech, but just not sure who to believe as magazines have their affiliations and advertising space to sell, bike companies have their bikes to sell etc etc.
I have to say that the more I think about things, the more I am hedging towards the P3 with a top spec aero bar. My E11 is a bit of a mess in all honesty with cable routing. It is internally routed, but in terms of the cabling from the brakes and gears, it is all largely exposed. The Bar system is basically a road bar with the profile design Ironman bars attached to it. There is definitely some improvement to be had there.
I think that in my head, buying the P5-three is not going to keep me happy in that if I am going to be buying a P5, I might as well go the whole way. Also, if I am going to factor in the cost of buying a top spec aero bar and then the Magura brakes for the P5-three, well from a cost point of view I may as well have just brought the P5-six. So, I guess the choice comes down to P5-six versus P3 with a top of the line aero bar setup.
Looking around at shops in the states, I can find the P3 frame for $3000 dollars, which works out great in british pounds - about $1000 dollars cheaper than I can find it over here, so even if I get stung with a bit of import duty (20%), I am still making a saving.
Aero bars wise, which would you recommend for the P3? Also, is it worth buying the magura brakes, or just stick my DA 7900’s on?
Wow that is a beautiful ride. The P5 tri-bars fit no problems? Don’t need to fiddle with anything, just go straight on and away you go? If so, I think I might have just found my next bike. I am assuming that the difference between what you have there and the P5-six in terms of speed is going to be pretty much zero over an Ironman?
I am not losing much from what Cervelo employees have said, they won’t say how much though. They just smile and say you created a fast setup…
You have to re-route the rear brake cable, dig through that thread I posted and it shows how to route the cable. Just know that it has been done and can be done. Don’t let someone tell you it isn’t possible. If you look at the non drive side, you will see I plugged the side hole where the brake cable would normally enter.
Not sure where you are in the UK, but I am in Oxford, so if you want help with the build or want to see the bike in person just let me know. Leaving tomorrow for 6 weeks but will be back in February.
Awesome. Thanks for the help. I may well take you up on that depending on what I decide to do. Wouldn’t be looking to buy the bike till spring next year anyway as who needs a TT tike in British winter!?
One thought that has occurred however:
R&A cycles in New York have a built up SRAM Red P5-six for $6000, which at todays exchange rate works out at £3839.
They have the 2014 P3 frame for $3000, and then I would need to budget another $1000 dollars for the tri bar? Then I need to add the aero brakes which are another $500? So, I am $4500 in.
I don’t need the wheels from the P5-six, so could sell them. They are a decent set - maybe get £4-500 back from them ($7-800).
It would mean that with a bit of work, the P5-six would cost me about £3000, and the P3 as you have pictured about the same? Maybe a few hundred quid less?
I realise I am liable for import duty etc, and with the P5-six option I would need to buy the whole thing in one go as opposed to being able to buy the frame now, the tri bars next year etc etc.
I’m not sure, but I don’t think the p2 was out when brad built up his p3. Could be wrong though.
I built a mini-me of Brad’s bike and used a p3 frameset because I just didn’t like the blue. Petty and somewhat unpractical, I just typically don’t like blue.
Haha I’m sure some people love it and the extra cash in their pocket, but I seriously just couldn’t pull myself to do it. I was standing in the shop just rationalized that I could get slightly more for the p3 components than the p2 (I was planning on selling off everything to transfer my group from my old bike and put on an aduro)
Same frame yes, different carbon though…Which I assume means weight, but not sure what else though…
I recommend the New P2 to any new triathlete that the bike fits into their budget, can’t really beat it.
I thought the frames were identical, and the only difference was a tiny dimensional difference on the fork? I know Trek & Felt user lighter carbon on their highest end models, but think Cervelo uses the same carbon for both of these frames.
Money is important and I got a P5three frame for 3000 Euros at edelrad.de. But I understand you’re in the UK and I don’t know if you can order easily from Germany.
The P5Threes come with the Magura Brakes, which is the only system which brakes acceptably behind. The P5Sixes come with that brakes AND with the aerobar-system.
The Look is also important, because you’re gonna have it for ten years you said. I hated the old P5 paint so I let it custom paint. The 2015 P5 looks nice but that’s subjective.
Note that the P5Three is discontinued by Cervelo as I understood.
No, same carbon too. Same exact frame. Just the fork on the P2 is a little thicker.
Same frame yes, different carbon though…Which I assume means weight, but not sure what else though…
I recommend the New P2 to any new triathlete that the bike fits into their budget, can’t really beat it.
Well I can’t find a source to prove you wrong or prove I am right, so I will defer to you on this one… How much is someone losing with that fork though?
No, the carbon on a np2 is the same as the np3. According to Damon, the fork is the only difference between the two frames, and this presents a minescule penalty (if any at all). As for color schemes go, keeping a matte white bike clean would drive me nuts. The blue and white gloss of the np2 has really grown on me. If someone is going to change out a ton of parts anyway, getting a np3 over a np2 doesn’t make a lot of sense. Here are a couple links to see what I’ve done to my np2 for $3k. With the changes I’ve made, I don’t give up much to a p5.
If it is like the S2 vs S3 fork, they aren’t losing anything. The difference isn’t exactly the same shape wise in this case, but it is similar.
Cyclenutnz did some napkin math based on the frontal area difference and it wasn’t much iirc.
Found it:
"I calculated the frontal area difference between the forks (measuring at 32 points) to yield just around 1s over 180km. Assuming that the shape of the P2 fork doesn’t actually have lower Cd… "
Well I can’t find a source to prove you wrong or prove I am right, so I will defer to you on this one… How much is someone losing with that fork though?