I’m wondering how much time I’m losing on my 2009 Cervelo P2C. I’ve done about every performance mod I can think of with the exception of slamming the stem.
Any ideas of any other speed mods I can do to eek out every bit of performance I can out of this thing or is it time to upgrade?
I thought about doing the P3 cable mod but don’t know if it’s worth it or not drilling into the frame.
How much time am I leaving on the table during a HIM or IM versus upgrading to an NP2 or the newest P series?
Upgrades include the following:
HED 3+ wheelset
Profile design Prosvet cockpit
Profile Deisgn Aeria Ultimate Hydration system
Profile design behind the saddle bottle cages
Profile design bento box
Campagnolo Centerpull front brake
Soon to route cables out through the end of aerobars vs out the bottom for just a bit better cable management.
From Cervelo data the P4 was 4mins faster than your P2 over an IM
You would have at least halved that difference with your mods
So that implies 2mins max detriment (because the P4 hasn’t been meaningfully superseded) to a modern bike
However, the higher stack of the newer bikes wouldn’t be terrible for you, nor would a larger frame. A Scott Plasma 4 would be a strong contender if you could find one.
Bonus tip - aerobars are much more comfortable with armrests
Interesting response. How would this 1/2 the difference provided that a P4 was also fitted with these other accessories? Wouldn’t there still be a 4 min differential?
From Cervelo data the P4 was 4mins faster than your P2 over an IM
You would have at least halved that difference with your mods
So that implies 2mins max detriment (because the P4 hasn’t been meaningfully superseded) to a modern bike
However, the higher stack of the newer bikes wouldn’t be terrible for you, nor would a larger frame. A Scott Plasma 4 would be a strong contender if you could find one.
Bonus tip - aerobars are much more comfortable with armrests
Good eye…i was in the middle of putting my cockpit back together when I snapped these pics lol.
Good to know the P2C should still hold up.
Does anyone know if there is windtunnel data anywhere comparing the older P2C frames to the NP2 or the P-series? Can’t seem to find any anywhere despite my searches.
Why not route the cables from the rear of the aero bars and not underneath? I have cable ocd, and maybe it would only save a watt at most, but they could be cleaner in set up even without drilling into the frame.
If you really wanted to go to town on it, a tririg front brake would help save a watt or two. Other than that, it’s all about your position really, you have a lot of stack which may work for you, and pedestal is better than the alternative.
Why not route the cables from the rear of the aero bars and not underneath? I have cable ocd, and maybe it would only save a watt at most, but they could be cleaner in set up even without drilling into the frame.
If you really wanted to go to town on it, a tririg front brake would help save a watt or two. Other than that, it’s all about your position really, you have a lot of stack which may work for you, and pedestal is better than the alternative.
Good call on the cable routing. It may not save much time but should definitely help the aesthetics of the bike.
As far as stack goes I’m working on dropping some weight so hopefully I can drop the stem down a bit and get more aggressive in my position. I played around with a more aggressive posture and its fine for short rides but no way I could hold that for 56 miles.
Eventually I’d like to upgrade to something like a Felt IA but for now I would need to be able to justify the performance difference between the two. Just suck I can’t find any wind tunnel data
Interesting response. How would this 1/2 the difference provided that a P4 was also fitted with these other accessories? Wouldn’t there still be a 4 min differential?
The Cervelo data lacked clear specs on handlebars, from the magnitude of the difference I suspect that the P4 had super bars, so wouldn’t be eligible for the same upgrades (namely the hydration)
I’m not a P2C owner but I have a pretty optimized P3C:
internal cabling through top tube (di2)
tririg omega brakes
tririg alpha x slammed
1x
I also put together a P5-6 this year, this bike being sort of the aero benchmark I thought it’d be faster than the P3C. But right now, from what I saw in training, I’m not convinced - at all - that I am faster on my P5-6 than on my P3C… and actually ended up doing all my end of season A races on the P3C this year.
I’m not giving up on the P5-6, but coming from the P3C I did not experience the wahoo effect I was expecting.
As a MOP racer who has had 3 Old P2’s with 2 different aero bar configurations and currently rides NP2. The bigger question is how do you fit on the bikes? That will decided a bigger part of your question. As a leggy. 6’ 4" individual I was compromised on the Old P2. On the NP2 the Stack is a bit taller so the bike fits better. I also have better upgrades on the Newer bike. But the biggest difference is the NP2 is a bigger bike.
Btw a Tri Rig Brake Set will help clean your cables up also.
As a MOP racer who has had 3 Old P2’s with 2 different aero bar configurations and currently rides NP2. The bigger question is how do you fit on the bikes? That will decided a bigger part of your question. As a leggy. 6’ 4" individual I was compromised on the Old P2. On the NP2 the Stack is a bit taller so the bike fits better. I also have better upgrades on the Newer bike. But the biggest difference is the NP2 is a bigger bike.
Btw a Tri Rig Brake Set will help clean your cables up also.
I am 5’11" with a 32" inseam and I am currently on a 56cm bike. The bike actually fits pretty well with the 70mm Aeria Ultimate Stem. I had a 100mm Tririg Sigma stem on before but just had to pull my aerobars back to get it to fit more comfortably and not feel so stretched out.
Of note although I do not had the Tririg Omega front brake I am currently using the Campagnolo rear center pull brake on the front (just switched that out a day or two ago). Not as good as the Omega but not too far off I’d guess.
I’m not a P2C owner but I have a pretty optimized P3C:
internal cabling through top tube (di2)
tririg omega brakes
tririg alpha x slammed
1x
I also put together a P5-6 this year, this bike being sort of the aero benchmark I thought it’d be faster than the P3C. But right now, from what I saw in training, I’m not convinced - at all - that I am faster on my P5-6 than on my P3C… and actually ended up doing all my end of season A races on the P3C this year.
I’m not giving up on the P5-6, but coming from the P3C I did not experience the wahoo effect I was expecting.
I had a P4 with and alpha x and went to a p5-3 with the alpha x. At low yaw it was a wash, but when the wind shifts to the side the p5 manages that much better. It was noticeable for me.
I’m in the 30-35kph or 19-22mph range (terrain depending). Not slow but not pro speeds
You’re similar to me - I have a P2C and my IM bike times from 2007 - 2019 have ranged between 32 and 34kph, although I class that as quite slow.
I can only give you my 2c (pun intended) - since 2006 I have bought my bikes from the LBS, many high spec, so I have a good relationship with them. They let me test whatever I like. I’ve ridden numerous new TT frames from the shop, and came away feeling no difference at all. Last year, I was toying with buying a brand new TT bike and they told me not to bother. I should point out I have nice wheels on it and a half decent helmet.
My fastest IM ride was actually in 2007 on a Trek 1200 Aluminium road bike with Clip-ons. Make of that what you will
However, it has to be said that there is a noticeable mental benefit from new equipment - I have upgraded the 1200 Trek with numerous road bikes since - lately with a top of the range Domane. I doubt there is any difference in speed, but it feels nicer to have it - and this certainly brings something.
I think all of the above changes if you are riding 40kph+… the drag from the air is proportionally a lot bigger. Once you hit the 45kph+ it really starts to tell.
I’m not a P2C owner but I have a pretty optimized P3C:
internal cabling through top tube (di2)
tririg omega brakes
tririg alpha x slammed
1x
I also put together a P5-6 this year, this bike being sort of the aero benchmark I thought it’d be faster than the P3C. But right now, from what I saw in training, I’m not convinced - at all - that I am faster on my P5-6 than on my P3C… and actually ended up doing all my end of season A races on the P3C this year.
I’m not giving up on the P5-6, but coming from the P3C I did not experience the wahoo effect I was expecting.
I had a P4 with and alpha x and went to a p5-3 with the alpha x. At low yaw it was a wash, but when the wind shifts to the side the p5 manages that much better. It was noticeable for me.
Thanks for the feedback. I need to try again with the P5-6, especially position-wise I guess. I have a tririg alpha one on the P5-6, so I don’t think I can blame the handlebars for not being aero.
Pretty much any speed. What happens is that faster riders get a higher percentage advantage but they’re out there for less time.
I did that calculation for a 6.00 rider in my Kona course model, from having done this many times the advantage will only vary by a few seconds from 4hrs to 7hrs.
Aero always makes a difference, whether that difference matters is another question. Which then impacts whether it is worth the cost.
You can bridge the gap even further by getting the drill out. One of the main benefits of a new gen “superbike” is the integrated front end tidying up the cockpit and cabling. I doubt my bike is giving up much to modern options, and the geometry is awesome.
You can bridge the gap even further by getting the drill out. One of the main benefits of a new gen “superbike” is the integrated front end tidying up the cockpit and cabling. I doubt my bike is giving up much to modern options, and the geometry is awesome.
That has to be the best looking P3C I’ve every seen! Great job on it! It’s really making me want to drill the top tube and route the cables like you have there.
Just some quick observation, cables, skewers, chain rings, tires, bolt heads, cadence/speed sensor, front derailleur, get rid of the bar tape, clean your chain/wax, balance you wheels…etc. lots to optimize on your current bike if you think it is slowing you down.
