Cervelo NP3 OR Specialized Shiv Comp (with pictures of fit)

Triathlon Forum
1

For those of you following my new bike choice since I finished the Austin 70.3, this is the end. I’m down to 2 bikes, the Specialized Shiv Comp Rival or the Cervelo NP3.

I’m really stuck between these two bikes. Here are my decision factors and what I’m currently thinking. I’d love to hear the ST advice, especially with regard to how I look on each bike.

Price:
The sticker price on the NP3 is $3950. I can likely get some work around on here to come down to roughly $3,800. I would still need to pick up a new hydration system, shoes, and helmet. I would likely rent racing wheels, at least for my A-race.
The sticker price on the Shiv is $2,600, but the LBS is running a special until 12/1 where I also get free shoes ($150 value) and a fuel box with the purchase of the bike. The Shiv also has an internal hydration bladder, which would save me roughly $70 on a new torpedo system.
Winner: Shiv.

Aero:
I’m a little iffy on this because I haven’t seen a head-to-head comparison of wind-tunnel data. I have seen a P4 vs Shiv comparison, where (if I’m reading the graph correctly) the Shiv was more aero (http://www.aeroweenie.com/assets/img/data/shiv-p4.jpg -thanks to JackMott for having this on his site).
Winner: likely the Shiv? Hard to tell without a 1-to-1 under the same testing conditions.

Components:
The NP3 has dura ace shifters and Ultegra front and rear derailleurs. I can’t remember the wheels at the moment, but the LBS guy said they were roughly a $500-$600 pair. Standard rear brake, but supposedly hidden from the wind pretty well. The NP3 also comes with an adamo seat (not technically a component, but I just thought of it).
The Shiv comes with Red shifters, a rival front derailleur, and an apex rear derailleur. The stock wheels are exactly that, stock. In-house brand, but compatible to the Shimano RS500. Hidden rear brake. The Shiv’s seat is crap and would be replaced. Likely could work the LBS into some sort of deal here, but nothing for sure. I have my own crank (Rival) that I would put on either bike because my power meter is tied to it (Stages), so that is a wash.
Winner: NP3

Color: I like the Shiv’s all black slightly more, but think the Cervelo is a clean bike. Overall, this factor is a draw.

Reputation: IMO, both bike companies have stellar reputations with regards to quality, engineering, and customer service. Also IMO, Cervelo gets a slight +1 here for its reputation of setting the bar. I also appreciate/respect how Cervelo publishes its “Ask the Engineer” series (and similar articles) showing how/why they make certain decisions. Although Specialized may do something similar, I haven’t seen it.
Winner: Cervelo. Not that I think Specialized is a worse brand, simply that Cervelo won the marketing war on me thus far.

Fit:
Here is where I need your help. Both bikes felt good. My body frame is longer legs, shorter torso, so in theory the Shiv should fit better. In the pictures below, I have minute (if any) spacers on bottom. What do you think is the better fit?

Cervelo NP3 (2014), size 56:

http://oi40.tinypic.com/xoh9iu.jpg1.http://oi40.tinypic.com/28lq99g.jpg2http://oi39.tinypic.com/ooe3s.jpg3

Specialized Shiv Comp Rival (2013), size Medium:

http://oi42.tinypic.com/35d3pn7.jpg 1. http://oi43.tinypic.com/1xz6us.jpg 2. http://oi42.tinypic.com/a31aio.jpg 3.

2

Maybe my eyes are bad…(actually I know my eyes are bad)

Are you doing a fit in running shoes? Are you paying for a fit in running shoes?

Maurice

3

Maybe my eyes are bad…(actually I know my eyes are bad)

Are you doing a fit in running shoes? Are you paying for a fit in running shoes?

Maurice

Unpaid fit. The NP3 just came in so I went to try it out. It was pouring outside, so I was stuck to the trainer. Same with the shiv. I had put the cycling shoes next to my front door to grab on my way out and simply spaced it, hence the running shoes.

My fiance snapped the pictures just as help for me later making my choice.

4

Not sure about fit, are S/R numbers close enough that both fit?

If so go with the shiv, you could spend that 1300$ on wheels, helmet, pm etc.

If you go back get some more pics and post them on here for the fit guys,

Maurice

5

If I were in your shoes, I would go with the Shiv. Both bikes are going to be great, and you’re going to love whichever one you get. That being said, with price difference, the shoes, and BTA bottle savings, you’re looking at close to $1500 that can pay for all your races next year and maybe even a honeymoon.

WRT fit, I’m not going to pretend to know as much as a lot of the guys around here, but you *look like you’d be more comfortable on a long ride on the Shiv. Very scientific, I know, but that’s my immediate reaction.

Both shops are great and I think you’d be happy with both bikes, but for my money (well your money I guess), I’d take the Shiv.

6

Personally, I’d first see if you can get more fit assistance from the shops. Certainly, these bikes “fit range” has a lot of overlap but each ones “optimal” is probably slightly different.

All that said, if the Shiv is that much cheaper, I’d go that route.

Also, aerodynamics are probably as well gleaned from the Dimond test of the Shiv and P5 but you know, applies grains of salt and read what people had to criticize the test for.

7

the cervelo is longer for same headtube height than the shiv tri

for OP: I think you might want to more look at p5 vs shiv tri data than p4 vs shiv TT. also it looks like all your back rotation is coming about 2/3 of the way up your spine instead of at hips. back angle of pics to tell anything of value though

8

Taking the triathlete magazine testing of Shiv vs P5 and adding the 68g of drag that Damon says the P3 suffers vs the P5 (have used a constant though this is unlikely to exactly reflect reality) - the Shiv and P3 come out basically equal in IM model unless it gets really windy ( in which case the Shiv will be faster).

http://i39.tinypic.com/ms2m12.jpg

However - out of the box the 3T wheels on the P3 will be significantly faster than those on the Shiv. And the P3 is much cooler.

9

Taking the triathlete magazine testing of Shiv vs P5 and adding the 68g of drag that Damon says the P3 suffers vs the P5 (have used a constant though this is unlikely to exactly reflect reality) - the Shiv and P3 come out basically equal in IM model unless it gets really windy ( in which case the Shiv will be faster).

http://i39.tinypic.com/ms2m12.jpg

However - out of the box the 3T wheels on the P3 will be significantly faster than those on the Shiv. And the P3 is much cooler.

If you factor in the improvements from the 3 piece vision bar to the Aduro and the P5-6 brake cover, you’re left with a whopping 10g difference between the NP3 and the P5 frames alone.

The ShivTri on the other hand does not seem faster than the old P3 at <7deg yaw.

http://i41.tinypic.com/j15y1c.png
http://i44.tinypic.com/9aq1dh.jpg

10

I have ordered a Zipp Vuka Stealth for my NP3 which has been reported by Jordan Rapp to be at least the aero equal of pretty much any other bar out there. So, that probably takes the drag difference between the NP3 and the P5 down to maybe 20 g. If that a decent approximation, then it would seem that in this setup the NP3 would certainly be faster than the Shiv.

11

Can’t stand the shiv…but it looks like a better fit to me…also can’t stand the cervelo…

How about take a spin on the road on each, see how they handle, and feel. Don’t decide from a stupid aero chart.

12

If you factor in the improvements from the 3 piece vision bar to the Aduro and the P5-6 brake cover, you’re left with a whopping 10g difference between the NP3 and the P5 frames alone.

Certainly. I think I first recommended an NP3 with Vuka Stealth to a client over a P5-3 about a week after the P3 was released - figuring that it would be the fastest option at the price.

However - in this instance the Shiv could equally have the bars upgraded (and the Shiv bars are clunkier than Auras so likely more gain there) and there is more room on price for that to happen. So, much as I dislike the camelshiv and the retailers who foist them on customers instead of doing a proper fit, I think the better option would be an upgraded Shiv for this poster if it’s not going to be limiting to his position (as high stack bars and high stack frame often are).