My DA/10 pulleys are pretty well worn, and I’ve flushed and relubed the “sealed” bearings pretty often. I’d keep using them, but the teeth are fairly well worn after about 10k miles. I’m looking for a replacement set of pulleys…and saw something about FSA ceramics. They run about $130 for the pulley pairs, which are apparently Tacx pulleys with CeramicSpeed bearings. According to FSA it’s worth about a 0.72W savings or a whopping 0.1mph on a 20mph average.
But really I just need new pulleys and can’t seem to find a pair of D/A ones for less than $50 a pair! At that price I might as well get the FSA ones! Tacx sells theirs for around $25, but I don’t know if anyone has experience with their products. The last comments on a search were back in 2004…
just got off of FSA’s site. notes that the .7x watts of drag is at an rpm of 500 for the pulleys. so, it would seem to depend more on chain speed rather than actual speed, right? i’d like to get a set too…
would also be interested to see how much drag the outboard bearings on a bottom bracket truly create. cyclingnews recently had an article stating an independent tester showed regular bearings for an outboard bb was around 4%?!
According to the pseudo review (more of an ad) a normal ext. (presumably FSA) bb uses 4% so at 400W that is 16W. They say that the new ceramic fsa bb uses .5% which would be 2W.
From FSAs own ceramic bearing document (on the site): “A Record BB @ 100rpm and 400W consumes 0.6W, the same BB with ceramic bearings consumes 0.02W”
So what does this tell us…
FSA BBs suck, their Ceramic ones don’t suck quite as much
According to the pseudo review (more of an ad) a normal ext. (presumably FSA) bb uses 4% so at 400W that is 16W. They say that the new ceramic fsa bb uses .5% which would be 2W.
From FSAs own ceramic bearing document (on the site): “A Record BB @ 100rpm and 400W consumes 0.6W, the same BB with ceramic bearings consumes 0.02W”
So what does this tell us…
FSA BBs suck, their Ceramic ones don’t suck quite as much
And Campag rules, of course
Right, I’m just wondering how much the Shimano outboard bb bearings are sucking up, seeing how that’s what I’m using. 4% is outrageous. That’s like the difference between making it up a 20% grade and blasting off of it straight through the atmosphere. I’ve got one of the new Camphy Chorus’ on order, so I should be in orbit next week.
Well, 500rpm is maybe a little bit high, but not that unusual for pulleys. My 40T front sees 90-100rpm all the time, which would be 327-363rpm for the 11 tooth rear pulleys. Ride a 53T at 95rpm and you get 457rpm for the pulleys. Not unreasonable I guess…
ShimaNO ones are pretty sticky too, guys I know who’ve upgraded the shimaNO BB to the FSA Ceramic have “perceived” a reduction in bb drag. Not an issue for you if you’re turning to the light side, apparently the UT BBs are smooth as silk and it seems that part of campags delay in bringing out an external design could be that they had to find a way to make one without sucking precious watts.
According to the pseudo review (more of an ad) a normal ext. (presumably FSA) bb uses 4% so at 400W that is 16W. They say that the new ceramic fsa bb uses .5% which would be 2W.
If the normal bearing actually consumed 16W I can guarantee that BB would get really hot, really fast. Even with air cooling it would probably still be noticeably warm to the touch. I think the 0.6W is a more reasonable number.
I’m trying to work that one out myself, havent found anything that fits the bill yet. You can take the wheels apart and use a light lube on the axles - just adopt a regular maintenance schedule to make sure it hasnt disappeared. Also remember that once you ride the grease warms up and runs more smoothly so they may not be as bad as they seem when turning cold.
If the normal bearing actually consumed 16W I can guarantee that BB would get really hot, really fast. Even with air cooling it would probably still be noticeably warm to the touch. I think the 0.6W is a more reasonable number.
Well that’s what you would expect, but “independant” testing said 4% - who are we to argue
Maybe they tested at very low rpm and the drag progression is non-linear
I already have a DA derailleur that works great, just the wheels are pretty worn and ratty. I guess I could sand the outsides smooth, but that’s a big pain in the butt.
The DA upper pulley doesn’t use the crappy ceramic bushing anymore, not sure when that changed though. Either way if it could be proven to reduce drag by a combined 3-4W for the entire bike (pulleys, wheel bearings, BB) that’s nothing to laugh at at the elite level. Down here with the shmucks paying $500 for a bike’s worth of ceramics is a lot of money better spent elsewhere.
Actually if you extrapolate all that wattage out into time savings per $ on an IM course, it is about $85/min. We routinely tell people to buy Zipp 808s that are more like $150-$350 per minute saved (depending on crosswinds). Better value per dollar spent???
One thing that can make a difference is the pulley size. That’s why I bought up all the old DA 7703 triple derailleurs on the market – they have oversized pulleys. This probably saves more than ceramic whatevers.
That right there is the tricky part. We’re talking about numbers for individual components that fall below the ability to actually measure the effect on a real bike ridden by a real rider.
While it’s no secret that I like to save watts, I’ve gotten a lot more bang for my buck by looking for watt savings in big chunks by refining things I already have to deal with anyway. Good bike position; good tires; aero helmet. Those things cost almost zero extra dollars and have picked up at least 30-40 watts over what I was doing before.
The only “extra” money I’ve been tempted to spend was on deep-rimmed wheels and a wheelcover.
Spend another $300+ for 3-4 watts? Fuggedaboutit! I’m just not interested if it’s not at least 10 watts.
That right there is the tricky part. We’re talking about numbers for individual components that fall below the ability to actually measure the effect on a real bike ridden by a real rider.
While it’s no secret that I like to save watts, I’ve gotten a lot more bang for my buck by looking for watt savings in big chunks by refining things I already have to deal with anyway. Good bike position; good tires; aero helmet. Those things cost almost zero extra dollars and have picked up at least 30-40 watts over what I was doing before.
The only “extra” money I’ve been tempted to spend was on deep-rimmed wheels and a wheelcover.
Spend another $300+ for 3-4 watts? Fuggedaboutit! I’m just not interested if it’s not at least 10 watts.
Spoken like a true follower of Mr. Pareto…
