I’m trying to figure out how the lower arm is supposed to be positioned relative to the upper arm and chest. The two pics below are meant to represent the start of the pull (my elbow is just about in line with my ear, and my forearm is pointing straight down). So which one is right? And which is “safer” for delicate shoulders? I hear some say you want a long lever, so the top pic is right. Others say you have more strength when your hand is closer to your chest like the bottom pic.
FWIW, I err naturally toward the top.
Pics removed, and replaced with new ones further down in thread.
Not to be too critical here but neither photo looks too good, if I had to pick the better one it would be the top. Look up posts by coach Tom Topo on the USMS forum. He’s the coach who invented the tech paddle. The link above has some good pics of high elbow/EVF (early vertical forearm).
In my opinion EVF is the most critical thing to learn in swimming and just about everyone can improve theirs including me. Body position would be a close second on the next most important factor for speed.
Assuming that your humerus is in the same position in both pics, then the one with your elbow more bent will be easier on your shoulder. The closer you rhand is to your shoulder joint, the lower the torque at your shoulder and therefore less translation of the ball in your shoulder socket.
However, my experience is that if you move your hand in you will naturally move your humerus more in front of rather than out to the side. So in that regard it could actually make some kinds of shoulder injuries worse.
I think the best way to find out is to try it.
If it makes you feel better, Steve Tarpinian recommend elbow bend as the way to make a good catch in his book and in his “Swim power” video.
The pic is a little deceiving on that. The hand should enter in line with the shoulder. From what I have heard/read a lot of injuries result from pushing the water down rather than EVF position when you pull water toward your feet. People who straight arm and push down on the water are bound to tweak something.
EVF is the most complex thing to learn in swimming but it is the biggest determinant of speed.
You can also come close to this feeling by using regular paddles and NOT putting the wrist straps on i.e.: only the middle finger. The paddle will slip if you are not perfect. AP
Not to be too critical here but neither photo looks too good, if I had to pick the better one it would be the top. Look up posts by coach Tom Topo on the USMS forum. He’s the coach who invented the tech paddle. The link above has some good pics of high elbow/EVF (early vertical forearm).
In my opinion EVF is the most critical thing to learn in swimming and just about everyone can improve theirs including me. Body position would be a close second on the next most important factor for speed.
Neither looks good? The first one is almost exactly like the illustration in your link! The only difference is that I’m rotated a bit more on my side, probably much more than I would when in the water.
I’ve been working on EVF for awhile now. There are a couple ways to get it… 1) bend really early, if you can, like Hackett and the other insane swimmers, or 2) let that arm drop some and rotate a little more. I’m trying to be somewhere in between.
Assuming that your humerus is in the same position in both pics, then the one with your elbow more bent will be easier on your shoulder. The closer you rhand is to your shoulder joint, the lower the torque at your shoulder and therefore less translation of the ball in your shoulder socket.
However, my experience is that if you move your hand in you will naturally move your humerus more in front of rather than out to the side. So in that regard it could actually make some kinds of shoulder injuries worse.
I think the best way to find out is to try it.
If it makes you feel better, Steve Tarpinian recommend elbow bend as the way to make a good catch in his book and in his “Swim power” video.
Now that’s helpful. I’ve been trying to see whether that upper arm should be moving more to the outside. So let me get this straight… the hand shouldn’t really be moving “in” toward your midline after entering and starting the catch? So that means to get ~90* bend at the elbow, you would be flaring your upper arm and elbow out to the side.
As for finding the best way via trying it, well, I’ve done that. 36,000 yards in the last two weeks and it was on my mind with every damn stroke. I don’t know which is right. And I’ll only find out what’s wrong when it starts to F up my shoulder (more)!
Is there any other way to make a good catch than to bend at the elbow?
the problem: there is just no way you’ll be able to get your arm pull and position right unless you get it right relative to your body. and your body is in a bad position in both photos.
there is a lot in common between swimming and mathematics: lots of people can do both well, but very very few can teach it well.
also, watching swim videos of kick ass swimmers is very useful. however, watching 7 foot guys swim a sub 2 minute event at 110% effort is pretty useless for a beginner distance or tri swimmer (that would be you). it’s about as useful as watching a 100m olympic sprint and using that info to develop your marathon running technique. if you look for videos on the net, start looking for 800m and 1500m events, and look at some women’s events, because elite women are more similar to you in size (i.e. not 7 feet tall). swim technique does vary with body size.
and if you ever pass through chicago, i’ll get you on a path to swimming right. seriously.
the problem: there is just no way you’ll be able to get your arm pull and position right unless you get it right relative to your body. and your body is in a bad position in both photos.
there is a lot in common between swimming and mathematics: lots of people can do both well, but very very few can teach it well.
also, watching swim videos of kick ass swimmers is very useful. however, watching 7 foot guys swim a sub 2 minute event at 110% effort is pretty useless for a beginner distance or tri swimmer (that would be you). it’s about as useful as watching a 100m olympic sprint and using that info to develop your marathon running technique. if you look for videos on the net, start looking for 800m and 1500m events, and look at some women’s events, because elite women are more similar to you in size (i.e. not 7 feet tall). swim technique does vary with body size.
and if you ever pass through chicago, i’ll get you on a path to swimming right. seriously.
I think I see the “outsweep” in this one of Popov, at 1:01 in… you can see his left hand move to the outside overthe black line. Is that what you meant? http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=related
