Trying to figure out if I really need to invest in a carbon wheel set. I know most serious triathletes have them, but trying to figure out (for me) if they are really worth the investment. I am a “middle of the packer” right now in the 50-54 age group looking to get faster. I race 3-4 times a year. Typically 1-2 sprints, an Olympic and 70.3. I recently got a Cervelo P2 (my first tri bike) that has stock shimano aluminum wheels. They seem kinda heavy and clunky. Should I get some carbon wheels? If so, how deep? Would these stay on the tri bike all the time? I have a road bike I use for mid-week group rides that has high quality aluminum wheels and that has made a difference. Just looking for guidance and advice on carbon wheels for someone of my profile. Thanks.
It’s pretty close to impossible to rationally justify carbon race wheels for a mid pack triathlete. If you want them get them, I can’t imagine a scenario where your would, “need” them.
Why not just switch the wheels from your road bike to your tri bike when you race?
A good set of wheels will never be a bad choice, though it sounds like dropping $3k on Zipps or something wouldn’t really benefit you in a way that you’d feel good about spending the money. You could definitely look into cheaper options like Flo’s or discounted HED Jets, which will only set you back around $1k and will make a noticeable difference for you, especially if you can tell the difference with the good aluminum wheels. Buying something with an aluminum brake track would also help simplify your setups, as you can switch wheels around without worrying about changing brake pads.
No.
Well, there was another thread about being too slow to have an expensive bike, so I think the same logic applies here. You might be too slow to have nice carbon wheels, so you better check with the OP of that thread.
Seriously, it’s hard to “justify”. As long as you can “justify” it with the wife, then enjoy a nice new set of carbon wheels. After a few seasons on some 404s, it turns out I still have to train hard to achieve mediocrity.
I remain an advocate for alloy rims with carbon fairings in the 40-80mm depth depending on your weight. The heavier the rider the more I would tend towards the deeper wheels.
As you noted with the road bike just upgrading the wheels from stock can make a big difference. As you move from carbon fairings to full carbon rims and from 40mm to 80mm depths the gains become more marginal. My experience is that if a rider is questioning if race wheels are worth the investment in the first place they are not the kind of person who will find the extra benefit of the real high-end stuff worth the $$$.
If you like buying things new the next order for FLO is coming very soon and there is a vast amount on this forum about FLO if you have a quick search. If I were you though I would be going used and getting something like this: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Classifieds_F2/FS%3A_HED_Race_Wheels_and_Disc_-_11_speed_clinchers_P6323623/?page=unread#unread. FYI I don’t know the seller but have good experience with HED wheels.
Step 1: if you want more speed out of wheels, make sure you’re using latex tubes and low rolling resistance tires. If after that you’re hungry for more speed go for the new wheels.
Trying to figure out if I really need to invest in a carbon wheel set. I know most serious triathletes have them, but trying to figure out (for me) if they are really worth the investment. I am a “middle of the packer” right now in the 50-54 age group looking to get faster. I race 3-4 times a year. Typically 1-2 sprints, an Olympic and 70.3. I recently got a Cervelo P2 (my first tri bike) that has stock shimano aluminum wheels. They seem kinda heavy and clunky. Should I get some carbon wheels? If so, how deep? Would these stay on the tri bike all the time? I have a road bike I use for mid-week group rides that has high quality aluminum wheels and that has made a difference. Just looking for guidance and advice on carbon wheels for someone of my profile. Thanks.
Take 1:
One of the bike data nerds did an analysis of this question.
Slower cyclists actually benefit more from aero wheels. If you think of it in terms of “I am exposed to aerodynamic drag for a longer period of time” it makes sense.
So it could make a difference in your time and possibly a difference that’s greater than your random variation.
Take 2:
Cost per cda benefit analysis doesn’t rank aero wheels as the best value.
Aero helmets are probably as the greatest benefit for $ spent
A properly fitted one piece tri suit with sleeves makes an appreciable difference at less than 1/3 the cost of a “value-priced” wheel set (even less % for a premium wheel set)
Take 3:
If you’re mid pack (I’m mid pack on a great day) then being a little faster doesn’t really mean much.
If you’re seven minutes away from qualifying for Kona, then yes every little bit matters a lot.
If you’re a “participant” who is just out there for the experience, then that seven minutes is pretty trivial.
For me, my random variation is going to be a lot more than 7 minutes (or whatever the wheels do)
Take 4:
I got aero wheels anyway
Other thoughts:
flocycling.com has a lot of good data on their blog site, including analysis of how much time you save over the course of a full distance triathlon with various wheel options.
They generally recommend 60mm depth for the front wheel and 90mm for the rear. +/- add a rear disc or a rear wheel cover for events where that’s advisable. I got a carbon clincher 60-90 set and I’m very pleased.
Generally a fan of buying used, but watch out for rim WIDTH. A lot of wheels just a couple years old are way too narrow, which actually isn’t good aero and makes most tires perform worse. The biggest difference I noticed with my FLO wheels was the vastly improved bike handling, ride quality, cornering, grip, and feeling secure on descents and cornering. It takes a TON of aero to make up for having to sit up or hit the brakes around corners.
If you want wheels buy them…its your money. They will not hurt you and yes even a MOP will go faster. If you want to get faster spend your money on a power meter and training plan and you will go faster in your next race. …then buy our nice carbon wheels.
I’m MOP and I have carbon fairing with alu rim HED Jet 6+ wheels. Do I need them? No. Would it make much difference if I didn’t have them? Yes and no. Psychologically, I love having them. They look great, they feel great and they are “free” speed. ie bolt on, and you go faster. But in the bigger picture it doesn’t make much difference.
But when they’re on the bike, I know I’m in race mode.
So no, you really don’t need them.
But when was it ever about need in MOP? It’s a hobby. People spend spare money on their hobby.
I bought a set of Reynolds Assault Carbon wheels used on here. They definitely feel faster. They are much lighter than my Mavics. But, in all honesty I bought them because they look cool. I don’t know if they make me any faster and if they do by now much. But, I love the way they look and I ride them all the time.
But, in terms of minutes per dollar it shouldn’t be the number one priority.
Do you want them?
If you can afford them and you want them, why not? Go buy some, you won’t regret it. I know when I put my race wheels on my bike for race day, my bike is lighter, I feel faster, and it just really gets me in a good frame of mind.
My first set were Zipp 404’s, and then I went with an 808 on the rear. Check out the classifieds like someone mentioned, there are some great deals lingering if you keep your eye out.
Unless you’re a true watt-weenie trying to wring out every last watt and second from your setup, you’d be pretty hard pressed to beat the AForce Al33 rims with bladed spokes. You can get a set built up with White Industries hubs for for $875 (+$100 for the ceramic braking surfaces, +$540 for a Powertap G3 in the rear). Throw on some fast tires and latex tubes for race day (or go tubeless with the Corsa Speed) and call it a day. There was a recent wind tunnel test where the Al33 rims performed very comparably to the latest Zipp 303s.
I was in this situation last year before my ironman race where I wanted to rent a pair. I am midpack and asked my coach that same question and he said no. The aero gains for a shorter race or even an ironman for someone in this field doesnt really have that big of advantages. Maybe a few minutes for us midpack riders but for a few minutes, I would rather save my money and train harder/ work on my run off the bike.
With this in mind, I did come across some good mavic 45 deep wheels that didnt break the bank (had some extra cash in hand) so I bought them this winter. Used them for a few rides and they are pretty nice. I can tell a bit of a difference but not a whole lot since they are only 46 deep and not the traditional 60/90 or disk combo you would see. Yeah not significant aero gains on a tri but my reason in buying them is that I can easily switch them to my road bike and not look redic riding 60 deep wheels on it. Multiple uses. Plus, my bikes looks pretty cool now…
Overall, if you have the cash and plan on using them then go for it. I got a super good deal so I bought them. I could never imagine spending over $1000 on wheels unless I was racing in the Cat 5’s or placing on podiums each tri I do. I did figure if I was passing people with $2000 enve wheels then I think I deserve some nice wheels. I do ride my carbon wheels every weekend and love them more than my original wheels so I guess it all depends how you use them. You can always justify your purchase to yourself and thats all that matters in the end. Plus,aren’t triathlons all about getting in shape and showing off your expensive ride anyways?
I podiumed in half my races last year (4 out of 8).
I ask myself an extensive list of questions - when I’m deciding whether or not to purchase a new (__________):
- Do I want it?
- Can I afford it?
If the answer to both of those is “yes”…I buy it. I think I paid $675 for my used front and new rear 60/90 flos.
I am similar… older AG and in my second year. I freaking love my 60/90 wheels. I will probably buy a disc this year. They do give you significant speed. But they are expensive. Still worth every penny.
I bought mine after I got most of the very high ROI stuff like fast tri suit, low Crr tires, lat x tubes, helmet, etc.
Wheels have a very high intangible pleasure factor. I keep mine on my tri bike full time so I fully enjoy them on every ride.
Unless you’re a true watt-weenie trying to wring out every last watt and second from your setup, you’d be pretty hard pressed to beat the AForce Al33 rims with bladed spokes. You can get a set built up with White Industries hubs for for $875 (+$100 for the ceramic braking surfaces, +$540 for a Powertap G3 in the rear). Throw on some fast tires and latex tubes for race day (or go tubeless with the Corsa Speed) and call it a day. There was a recent wind tunnel test where the Al33 rims performed very comparably to the latest Zipp 303s.
Totally agree. Actually on a calm day I believe the data indicates these are faster then the Zipp 303s.
Just looking for guidance and advice on carbon wheels for someone of my profile.
The short answer is no you don’t absolutely need aero wheels.
With that being said, aero wheels are faster, no doubt about that. I have been suggesting people go with HED JET+ for a while. A bonus is Competitive Cyclist has HED JET 6+ at $1099 (42% off).
HED JET+ Reasons:
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Aluminum brake track offering far superior braking to carbon.
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Wide internal rim - 21mm. I am running the Vittoria Corsa Speeds 23mm at 77-78psi in the front and 80psi in the rear. Gives a plush ride with great handling.
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Proven aerodynamics from HED. Backed up by independent testing like Tom A. in his Specialized test
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Lightweight. Significantly lighter than aluminum aero wheels by others like Flo and almost as light as carbon competitors. With the extra material of the wheel being 21mm wide this is actually quite impressive. Zipps for instances are only 16.25mm - 17.25mm wide.
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Get immediately, no waiting for the next group buy
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Strong resale value if purchasing at 42% off to begin with.
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Easy to get a wheel cover to match the rim and turn into a disc.
You definitely do not need carbon wheels (or for that matter any of the other fancy stuff we all buy). But if you are already shopping for new wheels, there are quality carbon wheels in the $1000-$1200 range so the marginal cost over good aluminum wheels is not all that much. So don’t automatically remove them from consideration.
A deep rim set of wheels will be faster than what you are riding now. But at least for me, I don’t necessarily feel faster in a TT or a tri, even though science tells me my final time is slightly better at the end than it otherwise would be.
On the other hand, I do spirited group rides and bike races and I do notice a difference on high speed portions. A more aero wheel is easier to accelerate up to, and when at, higher speeds and they feel like the hold speed forever. My coasting has improved light years since I got my carbon wheels 
I do get a small kick out of all of that on almost every group ride and in every bike race and there are times when all of that, even the awesome coating part, makes a difference so I’m happy I ponied of the difference in cost
Trying to figure out if I really need to invest in a carbon wheel set. I know most serious triathletes have them, but trying to figure out (for me) if they are really worth the investment. I am a “middle of the packer” right now in the 50-54 age group looking to get faster. I race 3-4 times a year. Typically 1-2 sprints, an Olympic and 70.3. I recently got a Cervelo P2 (my first tri bike) that has stock shimano aluminum wheels. They seem kinda heavy and clunky. Should I get some carbon wheels? If so, how deep? Would these stay on the tri bike all the time? I have a road bike I use for mid-week group rides that has high quality aluminum wheels and that has made a difference. Just looking for guidance and advice on carbon wheels for someone of my profile. Thanks.
Carbon Wheels < Power Meter
If you don’t have either but have money to spend, I’d say get a power meter first. One buys a few minutes on the bike, depending the wheels, course and conditions. The other buys you insurance that you bike to your fitness potential, but leave enough in the tank to follow it up with a stellar run.
I’m a leg cooker on the bike, while it’s mentally difficult to sit at an 80-85% NP goal knowing I could go faster, the meter has shown that I am saving much more on my run than I ever did on the bike course when I purchased my 808’s last year, and in turn I’m getting better overall results.