Carbon Fiber: Second Impressions

Triathlon Forum
1

A few weeks ago, I posted my initial impressions after my first (and very short) ride on my new Aegis Trident, the first carbon fiber frame I’ve ever owned. I had high expectations from this frame, but my first ride did not live up to those expectations. I actually tried to sell the frame, fork and aerobars. I stuck it up on ebay and attracted some interest. But the bidding only went up to $720, and it didn’t sell. So I decided to tinker with the position a bit more and see what I could come up with.

After several more rides, including a pretty good one yesterday, it is time to re-evaluate my position on carbon fiber. I have come to the conclusion that I think I like the bike, and I think it will work well for me. But the fact that it is carbon fiber has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

I looked at the position of the seat and bars, and started there. I was afraid the bike was too big for me and that I would be too stretched out on the frame. I bought the Carbon-X’s with a 120 mm stem, and I just didn’t think they would work. I posted some pictures in another thread of me on the bike. I need to re-post another picture, but the general consensus was I’m not too stretched out at all. So I think the frame will fit me. That’s 99% of the battle right there.

Now, what about the carbon frame? Remember that all my previous bikes have been aluminum, so I was really looking for improvements in comfort with the carbon frame. However, I noticed no extra comfort after that first ride, and four rides later, I still can’t tell a difference. I rode yesterday over the roughest patch of road we have in our community, and even with a $3K carbon bike under me, it was still the roughest patch of road we have.

The rough roads are still rough. The smooth roads are still smooth. And the in-between roads are still in-between. I remain more convinced than ever that frame materials don’t matter and 90% of the debate is marketing hype.

In fact, the Aegis is pretty uncomfortable right now because the saddle is brand new and quite stiff. Once it gets broken in (it’s a pretty nice saddle), things should be different.

So there is my experience with going from a mid-level aluminum bike to a high-end carbon sex machine: I can detect no difference in ride quality, and I doubt I’ll be one second faster on the new bike. And just think – I got all that for $3000. What a bargain!

RP

2

when I went from my alu TT bike with Carbon fork to an all-carbon fiber road bike I felt a big difference. Especially when riding over railroad tracks and other uneven parts on the road. Sure, bike companies advertise their bikes well, but the carbonfiber frame I have gives me a very smooth ride. Much more so than any alu frame I’ve ever ridden.

3

As I said in my Giant TCR thread - It is all marketing hype.

In fact I think the whole bike industry is focusing on inventing concepts that add no value, but make people feel they have a need to spend, replace, improve as if it will make a difference. It is about creating falsed perceptions based on psuedo science. Until a new hype is invented. The most recent idea is a bike that has carbon rear triangle.

But people think they can buy speed.
For example, suddenly a Cervelo P3 is not good - one needs a special spring on one’s brakes because Demerely said so. The next day aerobars are not good, you need S bars because Lance has some and Slowman recommend.

5

You have buyers remorese because the product does not deliver.

7

I think your frame is too big…but really depends on what SPA you want to ride…

Glad to hear your coming to grips with the purchase. Spending say $2k more than a “good” bike isn’t (usually) going to make radical changes. But, you would certainly hope it would bring incremental benefit…if nothing else, more bling when you pass people.

8

Once the bike and him will participate in many hours of training, events and races they will develop a special bond and he will love his bike and be very proud of it. Until then he will find that the bike is just as good as any road or tri bike - because he was made to believe that the theoretical properties of a material translate into additional comfort. No one told him that these differences couldn’t be perceived by a human’s central nervous system.

9

I’m lucky enough to be able to afford all the latest bells and whistles for my bikes…and I’ll bet all the money, hype and latest parts saves me next to nothing in time!! Except for the Rotor Cranks…just have to say it…they are probably the best investment I’ve made in 14 years of triahtlons. I’ll gain more time then anything else I’ve ever purchased for my bike!! They are ungodly faster then regular cranks. So fast that I’ve ordered a second set for my race bike.

11

I agree. And if someone said to me that he worked hard and treated himself to a machine that is a piece of art and that makes him feel great. A mchine that has been built by people who are passionate about their creations, then I will think great. But if on the other hand a guy buys a bike for twice the price because it weigh 123gr less, or because it has a molecular structure that could make him more comfortable or faster, then I feel sorry for that person having to spend 1000s for a minute difference.

12

Sorry pal, you’re wrong. You gain speed with an aero bike. Take you on your Giant, and put you on a P3 (or a Walser, or a Pinarello Montello) and you will be faster on the TT bike. Get over it. You can’t argue with the science. And the science is clear, and easy to understand. This is one of the areas where you actually can buy speed.

13

Yeah, I might have a little bit of buyer’s remorse. But it’s not as bad as it was a couple of weeks ago. I think I can get comfy on the bike, and I think it will fit me. It’s an unusually sized frame, and it’s hard for me to figure out. I need the long top tube on the Aegis, but I’m not sure I need the 120 mm stem on my bars. Also, because my legs are short compared to my torso, the standover height is a little much. However, I think I’ll be able to dial everything in pretty well without compromising too much.

I guess the thing that bothers me is that I fell for the carbon craze hook, line and sinker. I think comfort has much more to do with the way a frame is constructed rather than what material it is constructed out of. I don’t doubt that some people could go from an aluminum frame to a carbon frame and tell a difference. But you can also be more comfortable on an aluminum frame than you are on a carbon frame if the craftsmanship is there. My aluminum Yaqui was a very comfortable frame, at least as comfy as this Aegis.

The Aegis is a fine ride, no doubt about it. Once I get the steerer tube trimmed correctly and the excess length on the extensions removed, it will indeed be a very sharp bike. I’ve never ridden anything other than 105, so now that I have Ultegra 10 speed, I’m in high cotton. The Aegis is more streamlined than the Yaqui, and certainly carries a higher price tag. I may be faster on it, but it will be due to the gearing, not the frame.

I don’t dislike the Aegis at all. It’s growing on me more and more each day. I like getting out on it, and I’m feeling better about the purchase.

I just feel like a buffoon in thinking that superaerosexycarbon would save me from the perils of chipseal. Like I said earlier, the rough roads are still rough, and the smooth roads are still smooth. I’m looking forward to racing it, and I’m ready to test it against on the same old tried and true courses we’ve been racing for the last couple of years.

My point in this post is that at least in my experience, carbon fiber doesn’t necessarily translate into a more comfortable ride. And Aegis carbon is good carbon – made in the USA carbon, not cookie cutter stuff from Taiwan. In fact, I just bought a road frame brand new that I got a screaming deal on, and it’s aluminum. I’ll build it up some time in the next year or so. My Aegis experiment has me tapped out right now.

I just wanted to share my experience with others. There is so much marketing hype out there, and it’s easy to get caught up in all the claims. But frame material won’t necessarily make one bike better than another one. I guess the bottom line is to just get out there and ride. If you develop the horsepower, the bike will take care of itself.

RP

14

I recently changed from a Titanium Morati to a carbon Orbea Orca for my road bike. My impression is that their is night and day difference in comfort, the Orbea is much more comfortable (although the Morati is stiffer). The Morati had a ride more like stiff steel, probably the stiffest Ti bike I have ridden.

I swapped over all my components, wheels, tires, bars, seatpost etc so I know the difference had to be the frame and fork.

My Giant TCR aero with the same wheels on it is extremely stiff, and “zingy” to where my feet hurt from the vibration when riding despite having a more comfy saddle. It also tends to bounce around through rough corners.

My fixed gear (old Tommasini Columbus steel) is nowhere near as comfortable as either my Ti or Carbon bikes, I notice a real pounding from that steel fork especially.

I have to say I notice a definite difference between materials, but I cant say anyone makes me “faster”.

15

I agree - it is hard to have it all. After owning verious bikes of all the main materials (even the pressed powder of a Griffen), I have decided that for me, titanium is the magic frame material for me (figures, I usually end up with the most expensive stuff).

I really like the super cool new carbon frames and all, but I will not likely buy anything other than titanium (or possibly steel) again. Lets face it, I (and I assume many others) crash pretty good about once a year to 18 months and I could never feel comfortable doing that on a carbon fiber frame and “wondering” if any structural damage was done. Now, any bike can fail (at the welds), but I feel pretty damn bulletproof (not to mention comfortable) on just about any quality ti frame (Litespeed, Seven, etc.)

Robert - welcome to the learning curve! It’s only money :slight_smile:

16

As had been said here on this forum repeatedly: You can make a good bike out of all the materials used for frames.

However me thinks that a raw titanium bike holds up the best to the thrashing a bike receives if you use it hard. I am talking about pouring nasty stuff over it (Sweat, Gatorade, “acid rain”), leaning it against walls, transporting or traveling with it.

A bike is foremost a machine. If you need a piece of art, buy one and hang it up in your living room (nothing wrong with that).

Raw titanium might not hold up to the highest aesthetic standards, but I in return I have a machine that does not need an expensive paint job every year (and all the work that comes with it), does not corrode and can even be cleaned with sandpaper.

Let me know when they start making one like that out of carbon fiber and I will buy it.