Ive noticed on the last two high stack shoes ive purchased, that they both cause some Achilles pain after using them for a bit. It’ll be pretty painful but eventually will warm up. I did use a lower stack shoe like back in the day and noticed it cleared up, however I was doing a bit of PT then too. Just curious if anyone noticed anything similar.
yes. that is why my preferred shoe now is altra.
Ive noticed on the last two high stack shoes ive purchased, that they both cause some Achilles pain after using them for a bit. It’ll be pretty painful but eventually will warm up. I did use a lower stack shoe like back in the day and noticed it cleared up, however I was doing a bit of PT then too. Just curious if anyone noticed anything similar.
Alphafly seem to aggravate my achilles if I do long runs in them. Haven’t had problems with the other ‘super shoes’.
Stack is just one part of the equation. It’s highly individual what any single shoe does to your personal mechanics and what the result is. If the shoes you tried caused that much pain then absolutely they aren’t for you.
The Hoka Mach 4 is a high stack shoe and aggravates my Achilles less than anything else I’ve tried. Emphasis on ‘my’, I’m sure they won’t suit some other people. NB Fuelcell TC is also high stack and when I tried that my Achilles was sore straight away so I gave it a pass but it’s a well liked shoe.
What were the two shoes?
Nike Zoom Fly Flyknit 2 and then Adidas Boston 10
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I took about a year to transition to a zero-drop after taking about 2 years to switch from heel-striking to forefoot. It was a long transition for my achilles. Assume you are heel-striking? Interesting to hear about pain from going the other-way 'round. I wonder if it’s prematurely “folding” your tendon, I picture landing on my heel then immediately all the horizontal force causing almost a “kinking” effect as the change in angle (from the initial strike to the complete landing) happens super fast and more severely then in a shoe with less stack.
I actually got a gait (highly credited running lab) done before trying these and the results were that I had a very good footstrike, and I shouldn’t have any problem with any type of shoe.
Could also be the back of the shoe up where it meets the achilles putting pressure on you?
I tried that Nike, lovely shoe but it did seem to work the Achilles hard. Haven’t tried the Boston 10. One has a plate and the other has energy rods. I don’t know the mechanics of how they work with our tendons and muscles but I wonder if that’s the common element.
The Hoka Mach 4 is a high stack shoe and aggravates my Achilles less than anything else I’ve tried.
probably a good idea to define terms. does the OP mean by “high stack” the height of the shoe off the ground? or the height of the heel relative to the forefoot. i think most people here think that he refers to the latter. if “high stack” is defined as, say, more than 10mm difference between the height of the heel off the ground versus the forefoot, then the Mach 4 is a low stack shoe (like all HOKAs), with a heel-to-forefoot differential of 5mm.
i find that a lower stack shoe is a benefit to my achilles, because my achilles doesn’t get jammed on every strike. also, i suspect the “dynamic” heel-to-toe differential is actually less yet in a HOKA, because there’s a lot of rearfoot compression after the footstrike. i suspect the “loaded” differential, heel-to-forefoot, is very low or even a negative number.
Have run in low and high. No issues (prefer high)
High stack for me is defined as the total height my heel is off the ground
Heel to toe offset is the difference between the height my heel is off the ground vs. the height my toe is off the ground.
What did you do to transition into the high stack shoes? Exercises? Stretches?
I think it’s definitely some sort of stretching or impact that my achilles is not used to. I am find going back to lower stack shoes, but I would like to try and get used to them as I am planning on buying some alphaflys or vaporflys for racing soon.
I was using Nike Fly Flyknits and caused achilles pain so I switched to infinity react and PT and it went away. Then I just got the Boston and it’s coming back around. It’s pretty clear that these types of shoe is the cause.
It’s individual. High shoes with anything less than 8mm heel to toe difference for me causes achilles problems. Love 10mm & 12mm models.
I had multiple bouts of calf soreness when I first started running in Hoka’s. I had good luck with only running in them after indoor bike rides, and limiting myself to 1-2 easy miles. Eventually (2-3 weeks I believe) I had zero problems running my normal miles in them. I also recently got a pair of Mach 4’s and never went through a transition period, just threw them on and ran. Zero issues.
High stack for me is defined as the total height my heel is off the ground. Heel to toe offset is the difference between the height my heel is off the ground vs. the height my toe is off the ground.
fine. i just don’t think most folks here are defining it that way.
Agree that heel to toe drop of ~ 10 mm is beneficial to my achilles tendonitis. I have been dealing with chronic insertional AT for 5 years. I best managed it with Nike Pegasus Turbo for 4 years and then switched to Hoka only to have my problem return. Since the Turbo is no longer sold I switched to Mizuno Wave Rider (10 mm drop). The sore achilles is still there but seems to be getting better. BTW, I sleep at night in a boot and do exercises as recommended. A very stubborn injury but am able to train and race with it.
Brooks Ghost has been another good one for me. Formerly used Mizuno wave rider.
the Flyknit is a cargo cult version of the Vaporfly. As such it’s essentially a sort of racing flat, with quirks including a tall narrow unstable heel.
So I don’t think it is at all representative of the general run of shoes that have a high heel.
The Boston 10 is a bad copy of a Hoka, with a similarly high but narrow and not very stable heel. Adidas didn’t get this one right.
For me Hokas with their giant heels, fixed my Achilles problems. These are stable cushioned shoes and I’d recommend trying these for your next ‘high stack’ experiment.
High stack for me is defined as the total height my heel is off the ground. Heel to toe offset is the difference between the height my heel is off the ground vs. the height my toe is off the ground.
fine. i just don’t think most folks here are defining it that way.
I’ve never seen it defined otherwise. Running shoe manufacturers, reviewers, and retailers refer to thickness as stack and the front-back delta as either drop or offset.
Examples:
Nike: https://www.nike.com/t/react-infinity-run-flyknit-2-mens-running-shoe-8XGSrl/CT2357-001
“Offset: 9mm (Forefoot: 24mm, Heel: 33mm)”
Saucony: https://www.saucony.com/en/endorphincollection/
“Heel to toe offset 8mm”
Sketchers: https://www.skechers.com/men/shoes/skechers-gorun-glide-step-max---dash-charge/220302_BKBL.html
“Drop: 6mm”
Adidas: https://www.adidas.com/us/ultraboost-21-shoes/GZ7120.html
“Midsole drop: 10 mm (heel 30.5 mm / forefoot 20.5 mm)”
Runningshoesguru reviews: https://www.runningshoesguru.com/2021/05/nike-zoom-pegasus-38-review/
“Heel drop: 10mm”
Runners World magazine: https://www.runnersworld.com/gear/a19663621/best-running-shoes/
“Altra’s Rivera has an equal heel and forefoot stack height, which translates to zero-drop.”
Running Warehouse: https://www.runningwarehouse.com/adidas_adizero_Adios_Pro_2/descpage-AAPM1SA.html
Heel Stack39 mmForefoot Stack30.5 mmHeel-Toe Offset:8.5 mm