Cambridge TT - boy those guys are fast ... (long)

Triathlon Forum
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upfront - thanks to anyone who offered tips on the riding of a tt - the donut face, puking behind someones car, and going till you see spots were all pretty useful … as humorous thoughts while i was actually trying to ride the damn thing.

looking at this race, a 40k tt over flat windy ground, i figured i’d pull a 1:08:xx, which is somewhere around a 23mph average … well that’s exactly what i rode and it was good for dfl in my age group (dead flippin’ last) … though there were only 6 riders in my ag and they all looked pretty goddamn fit, and none of them were riding cxp33’s as i was …

a loop course with only a few turns the ride was pretty uneventful - i definitely confirmed that i enjoy riding rolling terrain more than the pancake flat marshland. there was very little to look at that would take your mind off the sensation of hammering in the same position for an hour straight.

for me, race broke into 3 parts - the good, the bad and the ugly. in the first 2xmin i went out (too) hard hoping to not have a series of stronger riders buzz by. i was holding 26-28 mph and keeping my mind busy trying to chase down the goddamn farm tractor that was maybe 1/2 mile up the road and holding about my speed … i’d get closer, the wind would pick up and i’d drift back … it was a good rabbit, but it probably blew any pacing strategy i might have had and i just wasn’t quite strong enough to catch it (not that i would’ve drafted it or anythign). in the middle 2x minutes i cracked mentally and physically. my cadence started to drop as my legs began to lose it, so i’d downshift and spin up again, but my lungs were not there to hold 100+ rpm indefinitely and without a single downhill there was no place to recover. then i couldn’t find the right gear for the cadence i wanted to ride (would have liked to have my 11-21 on instead of the 12-25) and i started to get frustrated, losing my focus and riding a very poor line as i tried to keep my head down and out of the wind. in the last 2x minutes i pulled it together, got out of the headwind, and was able to apply gary’s advice about alternating power strokes with spinning - except instead of 4:1 power to spin it was more like 2:10 - but that kept bumping me up 1/2 mph at a time until i was spinning at 26mph instead of 23 …

i was passed a total of 4 times and each time by a guy just cruising by on a disk … i didn’t pass a soul, which was depressing but there was a 2 minute gap between my ag and the riders ahead and i was last in my ag to leave … since i turned out to be the slowest, there weren’t any fat, weak, old people to blow by and improve my self esteem. so many riders were at least 1:00:xx (including women), and the top times were below 53min … that’s a whole 'nother league of fast.

i’ve been told that a disk on this course was worth maybe 4 minutes given the wind and flat terrain - not much use for me as that’s not in my budget. with some more miles in my legs and some smarter riding i hope to go under 1:00 the next time i ride it.

bottom line for me: 40k = pain.

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a disc is not worth 4’ on a flat course
.

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don’t be a hater.

and i said ‘maybe’

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not a hater. just stating that a disc isn’t worth 4’ on a flat course. Unless you compare with MTB wheels.

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but a disk is worth more on a flat course than anywhere else, right? especially if it’s a little windy, but not too gusty …

so what is it worth, +-, in reality, compared to box rims?

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Technically, “DFL” is the very last of everyone in the race,across all divisions.

Even though the “F” may seem appropriate to you, last in an AG, with slower folks in other divisions, is simply “DL”.

Hope that helps…

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90 seconds or thereabout.

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Don’t feel too bad Tom, as you are not alone in this experience. I did my first 40k TT last fall and finished DFL (or DL to use someone else in this thread’s vernacular). I was about the same time as you, and also went out too fast. My course was out and back and I thought I would never see that damn turn around. My second 10 k was just brutal.

The thing about TTs (and duathlons for that matter) is that it seems no “casual” racers show up. Every one is fit and quick as hell. At least in tris or running races I can count on enough cannon fodder to show up that my weak times can pass as MOP. Doesn’t seem to happen in TTs.

Keep the faith and rip it up next time.

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Welcome to the wonderful world of TTing! BTW, 1:08:XX for 40K would be more like 21.6-22 mph, did you mean 1:03?

Not sure of your AG, I’ve done a couple of 40Ktts this year and guys in the 40s were among the fastest, in one of them the overall winner was over 40. If you did 1:03 and were last in your AG, that is a fast group.

One was a gently rolling TT and one a hilly TT, figures I was almost a minute slower on the flat course, it was very windy and just an off day for me I guess.

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One of our athletes, Paul Langlois, of Team Snow Valley/Seal On, won the Mens 50+ in the TT, and was 9th overall (of about 200 starters) setting a PR on his new set of Rotor Cranks.

http://www.teamsnowvalley.com/

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"a disc is not worth 4’ on a flat course "

Maybe closer to a 2-3 minute advantage if you compare the most aero of wheels (e.g. Zipp 999) to the least aero (e.g. Mavic Open Pro 32h) over 40k, depending on wind and rider speed, of course.

(DISCLAIMER: This opinion is based on my own testing, and in no way should be confused with wind tunnel scientific published blah blah blah)

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I really think it’s less. I rode a 20km TT in 28’ with mavic open pro, 32 round spokes, no shoe cover, a big jacket, regular road bike, no aerobars and sitting quite high (and top HR at 160bpm)…so if a disc already gives a 90’’ gain over 20km, that’s 26’30’‘, add an aero front wheel etc, tribars, aero position and that’s well below 25’. I really think a disc would give a 90’’ gain max over 40km

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Disc is JUST disc. Zipp 999’s is Disc + Deep Front.

Conventional wisdom of TT’s says disc replacing 32-spoke rear is close to 90 seconds and nowhere near 4 minutes.

However, many people who ride discs are not riding them with CXP33 32-spokers. So add in a deep section front (like the dish/80mm front 999’s) and you get like 2.5-3 minutes.

So perhaps some people saying “a disc saves 4 minutes” were assuming the disc would be paired with an appropriate front and perhaps even other changes to equipment that might yield the 4 minute gain… Just a thought. The aero savings of the whole package are represented by “disc.” I know when I first started triathlon, a “tribike” to me had a disc and aerobars, everything was just extra dressing…

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2-3’ for the combo over 40km, I can buy that. that’d be between 1’-90’’ over 20km. giving most of the improvement between this relatively easy 20km and a real TT from going over LT and using a real TT position, aerobars etc. makes a lot more sense

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"I rode a 20km TT in 28’ with … "

hmm you might want to work on your bike speed, seems kind of slow for TdF standards, if you need any help, just let me know

:wink:

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Did you have the “O” sign going? Did ya blow chunks? Could ya stand up afterward? Did ya have so much fun you could SHIT? Did you find the next TT to enter yet?

If you answered anywhere near the following … Yes, Yes/almost, No, double yes, and hell yes then welcome to the brotherhood of the spoke. It gets better and worse, I really hope you enjoyed your experience and will sign up for some more fun. Congratulations Aloha G

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Interesting point made about alternating power strokes with spinning. I’ve been doing this a lot during my TT’s recently anyway. I did this to recover some muscle recruitment but never realised anyone else was doing it…

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yes, almost, yes (but not comfortably, and sitting was rough), yes, yes but still looking for one that happens sooner … definitely have to do some hard intervals before i can get to the point where i’m blowing chunks … !

btw, my math was off (there’s not 100 minutes in an hour? who knew?), but my computer indicated an average speed of something like 23.7 … which doesn’t jive with my 1:08 … not that i’m worried about it as i still didn’t win place or show, but something was a little off somewhere … i’ll figure it out next time …

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Hey Tom -

I missed your earlier posts about the race or I would have told you that there’d be another ST’er out there. I rode in the M35-39 division on Saturday. Pretty cool course hey? I rode the race with ancient Mavic Open4CD’s (32 hole) and a standard 10 year old Cannondale road bike and let me tell you… I’m feeling you man. Lot’s of guys with high gear blowing by me! I had a blast though, esspecially after I recovered enough to ride back to the parking lot.

The next TT in the area is July 24th and you can find out more here: http://www.mabra.org/article.php?did=187&scid=34

It’s just outside of Frederick so it’s not too much further than you drove for Cambridge. The course is hilly and a lot of fun. Let me know if you’re interested and I can get you the details.

Larry

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oooooh, i’m so there.

i have to drive my bike to get anywhere anyhow … fredrick’s not that far! yeah, get me the details and i’ll sign up … i think a few hills suit me better anyway … not like i’ll do any better, it’s just more fun to have some terrain variety!

thanks for mentioning it!